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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalis View Post
    Not really, the Lib Dems used to regularly poll 25-30% of the vote, but never gained anything like a quarter of the seats, and they only became a relevance when the Tories couldn't get a majority. From Thatcher until Blair, the third party in British politics has been meaningless.

    As you know, first past the post means that there is no point in being the second most popular party in every constituency, if you can't be the most popular in any of them.

    There hasn't been anything to show they will win a large number of seats, and even if they win a few it will likely be an insignificant amount - they wouldn't even be considered as possible partners in a coalition, as they don't have any common ground with the Tories or Labour.
    There have already been moves for a UKIP-Tory coalition, even before the next election takes places and the next government is formed. "Insignificant?" Right. Is that why all three of the other parties are scared? Is that why they are likely going to enter a coalition, because they're "insignificant?"
    Quote Originally Posted by RICH8472 View Post
    Nakura Chambers make ME look like a pacifist with all of his war threads.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grummgug View Post
    Socialism is a form of subjugation. The United States, via Hollywood, is glorifying socialism and feeding it to the European masses as a form of subjugation. We got sick and tired of Europe fighting World Wars. This is how we put a stop to it. We turn Europe into American colonies by making them think socialism is the superior political system.

  2. #42
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    At least 13%...apart from the ones in that link that show them between 8-12%, of course

    You do realise that we can read the links, don't you?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nakura Chambers View Post
    There have already been moves for a UKIP-Tory coalition, even before the next election takes places and the next government is formed. "Insignificant?" Right. Is that why all three of the other parties are scared? Is that why they are likely going to enter a coalition, because they're "insignificant?"
    Cameron hates Farage. Whose voterbase do you think a euro-sceptic right wing party were taken from?

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalis View Post
    At least 13%...apart from the ones in that link that show them between 8-12%, of course

    You do realise that we can read the links, don't you?
    The lowest it's been in over a month is 10%? Not sure where you're getting the 8% number from, certainly not from a recent poll.
    Quote Originally Posted by RICH8472 View Post
    Nakura Chambers make ME look like a pacifist with all of his war threads.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grummgug View Post
    Socialism is a form of subjugation. The United States, via Hollywood, is glorifying socialism and feeding it to the European masses as a form of subjugation. We got sick and tired of Europe fighting World Wars. This is how we put a stop to it. We turn Europe into American colonies by making them think socialism is the superior political system.

  4. #44
    Elemental Lord Kalis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nakura Chambers View Post
    The lowest it's been in over a month is 10%? Not sure where you're getting the 8% number from, certainly not from a recent poll.
    24th-26th January, 8%.

    31st January–2nd February, 9%.

    How many days do your months have?

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalis View Post
    24th-26th January, 8%.

    31st January–2nd February, 9%.

    How many days do your months have?
    The only polling firm that has UKIP below 10% was Populous (the two you linked to). All of the other polls (ICM/The Guardian, YouGov, Ipsos MORI, Opinium, Survation/Sky News, and ComRes) show UKIP above 10%. It's not only UKIP though, Populous's polling of other parties is also inconsistent with other polls taken during the same time frame, only by a few percentage points for each party, mind you, but it suggests that they have a much larger margin of error.
    Quote Originally Posted by RICH8472 View Post
    Nakura Chambers make ME look like a pacifist with all of his war threads.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grummgug View Post
    Socialism is a form of subjugation. The United States, via Hollywood, is glorifying socialism and feeding it to the European masses as a form of subjugation. We got sick and tired of Europe fighting World Wars. This is how we put a stop to it. We turn Europe into American colonies by making them think socialism is the superior political system.

  6. #46
    Debating whether the party is a bunch of losers or a bunch of losers isn't exactly interesting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Nakura Chambers View Post
    The only polling firm that has UKIP below 10% was Populous (the two you linked to). All of the other polls (ICM/The Guardian, YouGov, Ipsos MORI, Opinium, Survation/Sky News, and ComRes) show UKIP above 10%. It's not only UKIP though, Populous's polling of other parties is also inconsistent with other polls taken during the same time frame, only by a few percentage points for each party, mind you, but it suggests that they have a much larger margin of error.
    So long as they don't have the majority of the voters in a single constituency, it doesn't matter - they can have 20% of the popular vote, but if they don't win any seats, they don't get to be part of the government.
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  8. #48
    Socialism is a form of subjugation. The United States, via Hollywood, is glorifying socialism and feeding it to the European masses as a form of subjugation. We got sick and tired of Europe fighting World Wars. This is how we put a stop to it. We turn Europe into American colonies by making them think socialism is the superior political system. It makes them extremely lazy, passive, and effectively US subjects. They aren't going to rise up and fight anymore because their governments give them free.

    There is no intention of installing socialism in the United States. The US runs the empire. It wouldn't make sense.

    Hannan's best choice would be to move to the United States. The UK is a American colony. He's not going to change that.


    [Infracted]
    Last edited by Endus; 2014-02-24 at 04:23 AM.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Nakura Chambers View Post
    Though Nigel Farage, a British classical liberal, is generally considered the most admired politician in Britain.
    ...
    ...
    ...
    ...
    ...
    ...

    What now?

    Nigel Farage isn't liberal. At all. He's not interested in anything less then hardline conservative and semi-fascist ideals, or anything at all that lets him piss over the rest of Europe (despite taking a huge paycheck from abroad). And he's NOT admired at all, he's seen as being an utter bigot and joke by the majority of people.

    You want a well respected liberal-minded politician? Try Dennis Skinner, one of the few politicians who actually gives a shit about the concerns of the 'little people' and regularly shows up to meetings and protests to show his personal support.

    Mind you, based on your previous posts, I suspect you've already made up your mind on the matter.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Grummgug View Post
    Socialism is a form of subjugation. The United States, via Hollywood, is glorifying socialism and feeding it to the European masses as a form of subjugation. We got sick and tired of Europe fighting World Wars. This is how we put a stop to it. We turn Europe into American colonies by making them think socialism is the superior political system.
    Could you please rewrite this into something that will fit in a signature?
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  11. #51
    We got sick and tired of Europe fighting World Wars.
    So you decided to show us how it is REALLY done?
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  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    So long as they don't have the majority of the voters in a single constituency, it doesn't matter - they can have 20% of the popular vote, but if they don't win any seats, they don't get to be part of the government.
    This is true and an inherent problem with first-past-the-post.
    Quote Originally Posted by RICH8472 View Post
    Nakura Chambers make ME look like a pacifist with all of his war threads.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grummgug View Post
    Socialism is a form of subjugation. The United States, via Hollywood, is glorifying socialism and feeding it to the European masses as a form of subjugation. We got sick and tired of Europe fighting World Wars. This is how we put a stop to it. We turn Europe into American colonies by making them think socialism is the superior political system.

  13. #53
    Elemental Lord Kalis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nakura Chambers View Post
    The only polling firm that has UKIP below 10% was Populous (the two you linked to). All of the other polls (ICM/The Guardian, YouGov, Ipsos MORI, Opinium, Survation/Sky News, and ComRes) show UKIP above 10%. It's not only UKIP though, Populous's polling of other parties is also inconsistent with other polls taken during the same time frame, only by a few percentage points for each party, mind you, but it suggests that they have a much larger margin of error.
    Firstly there were no polls showing UKIP below 13%, then there were.

    Then there were no polls showing UKIP at 8%, then there were.

    Now those polls must be wrong, as you don't like the results.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nakura Chambers View Post
    This is true and an inherent problem with first-past-the-post.
    As opposed to proportional representation, where we get all the loonies, and would have had a coalition government every election since the Second Word War - we've seen how they work, no thanks.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    So you decided to show us how it is REALLY done?
    Europe mostly goes along with what the US does anyway. Either they go along with it, or they just mildly complain. Europe doesn't have an army that can actually make a difference either way.

    Here's the deal. The United States has a HUGE military. The US provides free military service for Europe. In return, Europe gets to artificially boost its social programs (because otherwise they would have to divert money to defense). And that social program boost keeps the European masses pacified. So the entire arrangement is one where Europe is a US colony, and its so brilliant because Euros haven't even figured it out. Ideally, Europeans believe they are "more evolved" and don't need a military, which helps lock them into US colony status.

    I wonder what the future holds if this arrangement continues. Europe is clearly losing its own sense of identity. Maybe 100 years from now, parts of Europe formally become States and join the US. I could see it happening if they continue to be so docile. Maybe this skirmish between the US and Ukraine / Russia could help push Europe into formally joining the US.

    But here is why Europe is becoming a US colony:

    1. Europe has no military anymore. It relies on the US for military support.
    2. The bulk of European culture comes from Hollywood. Its pervasive and leaks into all things in Europe.
    3. Its economy relies on the US. If the US falls into recession, it will pull down Europe with it. Not vice versa.

    The US has control of Europe's military, its culture, and its money. Europe is a US colony. Its just not formally recognized.
    Last edited by Grummgug; 2014-02-24 at 04:11 AM.

  15. #55
    Elemental Lord Kalis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durandro View Post
    ...
    ...
    ...
    ...
    ...
    ...

    What now?

    Nigel Farage isn't liberal. At all. He's not interested in anything less then hardline conservative and semi-fascist ideals, or anything at all that lets him piss over the rest of Europe (despite taking a huge paycheck from abroad). And he's NOT admired at all, he's seen as being an utter bigot and joke by the majority of people.

    You want a well respected liberal-minded politician? Try Dennis Skinner, one of the few politicians who actually gives a shit about the concerns of the 'little people' and regularly shows up to meetings and protests to show his personal support.

    Mind you, based on your previous posts, I suspect you've already made up your mind on the matter.
    He likes Farage (and even more bizarrely, Hannan), I doubt he'd be too keen on Skinner.

    Who are you going to suggest next for him? Kinnock? Benn? Galloway?

    I think he might like Griffin.

  16. #56
    Ok so I'm bored lets try to actually unpack this.

    Either they go along with it, or they just mildly complain.
    Not observably true. For instance France is perfectly happy to engage in military action in Africa without us. Most of them refused to get involved in Iraq.

    Europe doesn't have an army that can actually make a difference either way.
    Collectively they actually have a lot of military force. The UK and France alone together exceed Russia's military spending.

    The US provides free military service for Europe.
    Last time this happened?

    . In return, Europe gets to artificially boost its social programs (because otherwise they would have to divert money to defense).
    Doesn't make much sense considering their healthcare systems are cheaper than ours for instance.
    And that social program boost keeps the European masses pacified.
    This is the French rioting over a small change in labor laws.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  17. #57
    America wants Labor to win every election in the UK for example. Because they by FAR are the strongest supporters of US colony status for the UK.

    1. Labor is not interested in building up the UK military.
    2. Labor wants to punish the business sector in the UK.
    3. Labor embraces Hollywood more than the Tories.

    That's perfect. That's driving the UK into US colony status. If we can just get Labor to win every election for the next 50 years, the UK might be the 51st state.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalis View Post
    As opposed to proportional representation, where we get all the loonies, and would have had a coalition government every election since the Second Word War - we've seen how they work, no thanks.
    Germany and New Zealand don't seem to be complaining.
    Quote Originally Posted by RICH8472 View Post
    Nakura Chambers make ME look like a pacifist with all of his war threads.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grummgug View Post
    Socialism is a form of subjugation. The United States, via Hollywood, is glorifying socialism and feeding it to the European masses as a form of subjugation. We got sick and tired of Europe fighting World Wars. This is how we put a stop to it. We turn Europe into American colonies by making them think socialism is the superior political system.

  19. #59
    Elemental Lord Kalis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grummgug View Post
    Europe mostly goes along with what the US does anyway. Either they go along with it, or they just mildly complain. Europe doesn't have an army that can actually make a difference either way.

    Here's the deal. The United States has a HUGE military. The US provides free military service for Europe. In return, Europe gets to artificially boost its social programs (because otherwise they would have to divert money to defense). And that social program boost keeps the European masses pacified. So the entire arrangement is one where Europe is a US colony, and its so brilliant because Euros haven't even figured it out. Ideally, Europeans believe they are "more evolved" and don't need a military, which helps lock them into US colony status.

    I wonder what the future holds if this arrangement continues. Europe is clearly losing its own sense of identity. Maybe 100 years from now, parts of Europe formally become States and join the US. I could see it happening if they continue to be so docile. Maybe this skirmish between the US and Ukraine / Russia could help push Europe into formally joining the US.
    Slight problem with your genius theory that us dopey Europeans haven't worked out yet...who exactly are you protecting us from?

    Russia maybe? Meh, they spend less than 40% of a combination of Britain, France, Italy and Germany. Can't be them, as they wouldn't be able to wage an aggresive war on the EU.

    You've been to war with Iraq...Saddam wasn't going to march on London anytime soon. Can't be them.

    You went into Afghanistan...those Talibans weren't much of a threat to Belgium's borders. Can't be them.

    Eureka! Those Eskimos look like sneaky buggers, thanks for keeping an eye on them for us. Muchos gracias.

  20. #60
    I'm not sure what he thinks a colony actually is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

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