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  1. #81
    Healthstones are really good right now, and I wouldn't be opposed to a hybrid mana gem + health item mages and locks could drop

    Alternatively, I've made other suggestions like having a real 70% slow (like Affliction locks), a knockback again, or our burst AOE damage could be stronger than the rest. Such effects would be baked into current spells to counter ability bloat (Cone of Cold, Blast Wave which replaces Flamestrike, etc)
    Last edited by MrExcelion; 2014-02-24 at 07:51 PM.

  2. #82
    Blizzard really screwed the pooch when they gave Anti-Magic Shell to DK's, that there is a perfect raid cooldown for a mage, we are supposed to be the masters of the arcane arts, yet can't muster a raid wide cooldown to reduce incoming magic damage... unreal

    Since that is water under the bridge...

    So I'll wait and see what WoD brings

  3. #83
    The Patient Deztru's Avatar
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    Don't get all the whine, but I'm enjoying being almost immortal in raids.

  4. #84
    When we have no warlocks in the raid I cry because we need to waste 5+ minutes every time we replace someone because we have no summon stone. We lack healthstones, and we have no gateways. When there are no mages I dont notice it.

    The imbalance in raid utility when comparing warlocks vs mages is simply insane.

    And then I wont even talk about the hybrid casters who can heal as much as half a healer on some fights.

  5. #85
    The Lightbringer LocNess's Avatar
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    I might sound hypocritical here, but I think it is better to compare our raid utility to classes that have an average amount, not Warlocks who are obviously probably kings of overall utility. Everybody gets Warlocks have more utility than most everybody, it would be better to compare us to classes that might not have as much to make a better statement.

  6. #86
    The Patient Keldaryne's Avatar
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    We need something to help the group, time wrap? Shamans already got one

    Conjure food? Hardly anyone used it

    Mana gems? Cant be traded

  7. #87
    I haven't really touched the topic at all, as I see there no need to before they release their "massive info post".

    But the problem we had this expansion was that the classes in direct competition for our raid spots brought at least 1 beneficial raid cd. Mages only had their ability to dodge mechanics and DPS. Granted most of the time we had the DPS, but when we didn't we were almost immetiately considered not worth a raid spot.

    Now why I say there is no need to is to talk about this.. Is because this has been a topic for the whole of MoP. They must have taken note to this and are doing something about it. And if not, surely we will raise enough hell then to not get another T6 talent disaster.. After all there is probably no Mages that are against being the least wanted class in raids.

  8. #88
    Brewmaster Anzen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenbud View Post
    This makes zero sense. Different classes bringing different CDs doesn't change.
    This was in reference to a post asking for a 15% DPS nerf as hybrid tax. I'm sorry but having Healing Tide once every 3 minutes doesn't constitute doing 15% less DPS than another class for the whole fight. In top tier raiding (where hybrid healing CDs generally don't matter as much because the healers are better and the raiders actually use defensives and healthstones) it would heavily promote class stacking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    Actually, it'd be this:

    Group 1: Tanks & Healers
    Group 2: Rest of Healers, Elemental Shaman, Mage
    Group 3: Warlocks
    Group 4: Warlocks
    Group 5: Warlocks

    Gotta have the Ele Shaman for raid haste for the Warlocks and a Mage for Crit buff
    ^ Haha something like this. It's happened before!

    Quote Originally Posted by LocNess View Post
    I might sound hypocritical here, but I think it is better to compare our raid utility to classes that have an average amount, not Warlocks who are obviously probably kings of overall utility. Everybody gets Warlocks have more utility than most everybody, it would be better to compare us to classes that might not have as much to make a better statement.
    Agree with this 100%. Saying you should be buffed because you're not as good as the current "I-have-everything-and-double-everyone-on-every-boss" class is a bit of a silly argument.

  9. #89
    Ice Block - pretty shit now - it doesn't work for most deadly situations (no benefit for raid)
    Time Warp - you need only 1 - shaman, BM hunter and mage or a bit weaker LW drums
    Food - who realy use that?
    Blink - "you have a chance.... " should be tooltip (no benefit for raid)

    ---> only raid CD is Time Warp and still it can be repleaced.... no we are just warlock with lower dps and less raid benefiting utilities

    mage is top dps for 6 years? maybe before we are nerfed to the groud (about 2 weaks after patch release)

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    Actually, it'd be this:

    Group 1: Tanks & Healers
    Group 2: Rest of Healers, Elemental Shaman, Mage
    Group 3: Warlocks
    Group 4: Warlocks
    Group 5: Warlocks

    Gotta have the Ele Shaman for raid haste for the Warlocks and a Mage for Crit buff
    Just use a bear for one of the tanks so the mage doesn't steal the warlocks gear.
    One day you'll understand that whoring dps/hps for ranks doesn't mean you are a good player, there are many more variables that separate a great player from an average, dps/hps ain't one of them.
    <Static>, 16/16H, 13/13H 14/14H 25m

  11. #91
    If u don't feel like your class works in a raid comp why don't you roll a different one? Not sure how not to call this guy a whiner as Mages are OP.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayp View Post
    I agree, but this thread isnt about warlocks is it. But the comparisons between the 2 are out of control.

    Warlocks are meant to be a tanky caster and their personal CD's reflect that, and i think the draw back/cost should be greater to use them. For example i use Sacrificial pact the shield is 200-300k with a pet. If i dont have a pet i can bump it up to 800k+ but at the cost of my own hp, seems a fair trade off (and a shit ton of health increasing buffs). And alot of the personal CD's locks have will kill them if they are not careful, that is the cost. We only have the 1 CD that reduces damage that doesnt have a hp cost attached to it.

    But again im getting off topic into warlocks and off topic more into personal utility, which ultimately this thread is not about.
    I'm sorry for the offtopic, but please, seriously? We do play warlocks as well you know? Nothing and I'm really stressing that, nothing comes close to warlock's personal utility right now. Spells using HP, no problem you have amazing dmg reduction CDs and a number of ways to heal yourself I can't count... Blizzard made warlocks the ultimate caster this expansion, there really is no reason to play any other caster at all, there is no downside to warlocks, none, nothing.

    Again I'm sorry for the offtopic, but this really got to me.

  13. #93
    I still can't believe people mention food.

  14. #94
    Brewmaster Mush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trollfaced View Post
    You are exaggerating way much now, you act as if mages are at the bottom of the barrel and thats just not true.
    He literally said that they are in the top 3 ...

  15. #95
    If Mages are compared to non-Warlocks, I'd say our damage needs to be dialed back a bit, no joke.

    If Mages (or anyone for that matter) were compared to Warlocks, we need huge buffs. The reason just being that we readily compete with Warlocks for loot, unless Fire Mage.

  16. #96
    Legendary! Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phair View Post
    Just use a bear for one of the tanks so the mage doesn't steal the warlocks gear.
    Well yeah, but then it's an aura instead of a buff so it suffers that 100 yard bullshit. (Ji-Kun anyone?)

    Buffs shouldn't even be auras around a character, it should just be on throughout the entire raid, like the Proving Grounds buffs.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Coldvibes View Post
    If Mages are compared to non-Warlocks, I'd say our damage needs to be dialed back a bit, no joke.

    If Mages (or anyone for that matter) were compared to Warlocks, we need huge buffs. The reason just being that we readily compete with Warlocks for loot, unless Fire Mage.
    Assuming Warlock damage is diabled back as well, sure. Also all the other top specs.

    Pretty much that. We're just in an absolutely horrible place because yeah we do a lot of damage overall, but there's another spec that eats up caster cloth gear that does even more damage and has way better survivability, utility, self-healing, and more. So while we're like 2nd on damage, we're never picked because we don't bring other things to the table unlike 3rd-11th.

    Retired Veteran Raider: [T14] 10/16H, [T15] 12/13H, [T16] 7/14H
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  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Hallonsaft4 View Post
    But you're mixing our personal defensives with raid utility
    On many fights that's the same thing. When a player can completely ignore a mechanic, you can find a way to make an encounter much easier.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Anzen View Post
    This was in reference to a post asking for a 15% DPS nerf as hybrid tax. I'm sorry but having Healing Tide once every 3 minutes doesn't constitute doing 15% less DPS than another class for the whole fight. In top tier raiding (where hybrid healing CDs generally don't matter as much because the healers are better and the raiders actually use defensives and healthstones) it would heavily promote class stacking.
    All early progression relies very heavily on Hybrid CDs and the like, i see world 28th in your sig so im not sure how you can disagree, AG and HTT can make a difference. You are thinking inside the confines of the current system and you are taking it too literally also, just because you are a hybrid doesn't mean you automatically do 15% less dps. I used the The Hybrid Tax as a general model, replace the word Hybrid with Utility or Support Class if you like.
    Last edited by Kenbud; 2014-02-25 at 05:50 PM.

  19. #99
    Give us mages a raid wide temporal shield!
    US 1st 10M -- Nightmare Asylum 14/14H

  20. #100
    please shut the fuck up with this thread already.

    ANY MORE UTILITY AND WE ARE UNKILLABLE/gods IN PVP.

    any. single. thing. anything. raid wide temp shield in pvp would be so unbelievably op. any dps cooldown on top of what we already have would make us too good. any mobility/survivability buff we can give to partners would also make us op.

    think about it this way. if mages DID have raid wide cd's, why would you ever want any other class. mages bring dps and their own personal survivability. that is their raid utility

    Infracted -voltaa
    Last edited by voltaa; 2014-02-27 at 04:47 PM.

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