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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Not Againnn View Post
    please shut the fuck up with this thread already.

    ANY MORE UTILITY AND WE ARE UNKILLABLE/gods IN PVP.

    any. single. thing. anything. raid wide temp shield in pvp would be so unbelievably op. any dps cooldown on top of what we already have would make us too good. any mobility/survivability buff we can give to partners would also make us op.

    think about it this way. if mages DID have raid wide cd's, why would you ever want any other class. mages bring dps and their own personal survivability. that is their raid utility
    Untwist them panties dude. Not only are you wrong speaking on how things are currently but an expansion is coming, the perfect time to change shit and to balance it. Hmmm...

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Not Againnn View Post
    think about it this way. if mages DID have raid wide cd's, why would you ever want any other class. mages bring dps and their own personal survivability. that is their raid utility
    I thought about it, and to me it seems that you would want to bring other classes for, I don't know, other raid CDs? As has been discussed numerous times in this thread already, and probably ad nauseam on this forum, 'DPS' and survivability does not fit under most peoples' definition of 'raid utility'. Even assuming equal gear and skill level, can you really say mages dominate other classes in DPS enough to make that their most important raid utility? No.

    Survivability? I'll admit mages may have greater survivability than some classes; cauterize being the most obvious example. However, assume a scenario, such as a farm boss, under which a mage does not come close to dying. In this case, raid utility would mean smoke bomb, AMZ, etc. etc. If your survivability is not in question at any point during an encounter, how does 'being unkillable' help the raid?

    Accusing others of whining and crying derails the thread and does not lead to any meaningful discussion about possible short-comings.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenbud View Post
    Untwist them panties dude. Not only are you wrong speaking on how things are currently but an expansion is coming, the perfect time to change shit and to balance it. Hmmm...
    blizz already said they liked how mages are and there will be no changes really at all. all i see in this thread is pvers crying because they cant do something that benefits the raid. mages have never been about that. so many people forget that there is an entire other aspect of the game. its these kinds of threads that get the nerfs in pvp and buffs in pve in the same patch.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nebs View Post
    I thought about it, and to me it seems that you would want to bring other classes for, I don't know, other raid CDs? As has been discussed numerous times in this thread already, and probably ad nauseam on this forum, 'DPS' and survivability does not fit under most peoples' definition of 'raid utility'. Even assuming equal gear and skill level, can you really say mages dominate other classes in DPS enough to make that their most important raid utility? No.

    Survivability? I'll admit mages may have greater survivability than some classes; cauterize being the most obvious example. However, assume a scenario, such as a farm boss, under which a mage does not come close to dying. In this case, raid utility would mean smoke bomb, AMZ, etc. etc. If your survivability is not in question at any point during an encounter, how does 'being unkillable' help the raid?

    Accusing others of whining and crying derails the thread and does not lead to any meaningful discussion about possible short-comings.
    im talking about pvp dude.

  4. #104
    And therein lies the issue. Effectively balancing both PvE and PvP viability is a problem that Blizzard does not seem capable of resolving at any point in the near future.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Nebs View Post
    And therein lies the issue. Effectively balancing both PvE and PvP viability is a problem that Blizzard does not seem capable of resolving at any point in the near future.
    yes so in by adding a raid wide utility cooldown we become the best in pvp (already top 2 best classes), because of the utility, dps, cc, mobility, and survivability.

    its really really easy to see how one would offset the balance more than it already is.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by dacoolist View Post
    Remember when people used to pay for mage ports? People still mad because mages don't have every single ability every other class's have.
    People still pay for mage ports on my server (US Area52-Horde). I can make between 25g-100g per person. If I advertise in trade, I can make upwards of 3000g in an hour.
    Last edited by yermommy; 2014-02-26 at 08:47 PM. Reason: typo

  7. #107
    Yeah, mage raid utility isn't good as far as raid cool downs are concerned along with hunters and are only brought for their damage, which right now is pretty average right now in my opinion. Or lust, if you are in a 10m that doesn't have a shaman or another mage. I have no problems with the class right now, but in terms of what they bring to the raid comparative is pretty bad overall.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Not Againnn View Post
    blizz already said they liked how mages are and there will be no changes really at all. all i see in this thread is pvers crying because they cant do something that benefits the raid. mages have never been about that. so many people forget that there is an entire other aspect of the game. its these kinds of threads that get the nerfs in pvp and buffs in pve in the same patch.

    - - - Updated - - -


    im talking about pvp dude.
    post clearly says raid utility, read before you start flaming other people and making a fool of yourself.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Irlwizard View Post
    Yeah, mage raid utility isn't good as far as raid cool downs are concerned along with hunters and are only brought for their damage, which right now is pretty average right now in my opinion. Or lust, if you are in a 10m that doesn't have a shaman or another mage. I have no problems with the class right now, but in terms of what they bring to the raid comparative is pretty bad overall.
    I'd say being able to soak more puddles for the raid on H Malkorok, negating Aim on Paragons and MC on Garrosh is just fine for raid utility. We bring BigDickDPS, as we've always done.

    I'm strongly against having raid-wide utility. Personal utility, on some fights can be considered raid utility, is good enough.

  9. #109
    Damn, noone on the first page mentions our biggest raid utility? DECURSE! It's been used for so many clutch moments along with the glyph to pump that extra DPS needed for the burn ph.. Oh wait, no.

    Still though, add decurse to the list of current Mage utility.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zdrasti View Post
    He's telling you upfront what's going to take. It's not ninja looting. It's pirate looting! YAARRRR!!!

  10. #110
    It is understandable that people are raging for us mages and our low raid utility. We do have indeed immense personal utility but that is the whole idea. Mages aren't the supportive class and frankly putting Vampiric Embrace on a mage would be ridiculous if f.e you played arcane. How would it feel having to wait to Pop Arcane Power just so that the raid has one extra Healing CD. What I would like to see is that crystal talent for WoD becoming a raid cooldown. Everyone can swap and dps the crystal (and no cleave works on it) and at the end of it's duration it explodes for f.e 15% extra damage (obviously the damage credit goes to each individual player). Give that spell a once per encounter cooldown and you got yourself a lorewise correct ability, AND raid utility in one. But we are no hybrid class, and our lore doesn't allow us to do ANY sort of raid healing. Imo even Healing Touch from Symbio is a stretch.
    We also don't get wrecked from Locks. Locks only excell in AoE and indeed their AoE/Multidot is overpowered. But a mage is most certainly not useless over a lock. As someone above stated we can use our personal utility for raid wise purposes. As a mage I can soak with a full Malkorok Miasma shield 1/4th of the room by myself if no double puddle enters there.
    You need to remember that for any ability to be added there needs to be a lore reason behind it. And the lore behind a Warlock allows for candies, gateways and personal survivability. A mage should wear 0 gear, just a linnen cloak and a staff and completely wreck any dps meters. So you bring a mage for the dps and the lock should fall slightly behind (on all fields). THat would allow room for raid utility
    Also it surprises me that none mentions PvP where frost mage is the kiting god.

  11. #111
    Rofl try being a rogue. Smoke bomb really? 20 percent damage reduction IF everyone is standing in the smoke every 3 min. Far from real raid utility.

  12. #112
    The reason you dont have utility is that you top the dps charts or close to it almost every tier. A mage in 10 man almost always has a guaranteed spot with TW even if shammies also have it, some guilds arent lucky enough to have plenty of lusters. in 25 man buffs classes overlap so if youre not getting a spot youre probably just bad. 25 man also means that you have every raid utility you need already. Stop whining.

  13. #113
    I'm pretty sure we can agree in the grand scale of all class balance, mages are pretty well off and our damage needs dialing back a tad bit.

    Then comes the purple guy who has it all but does it better than THE CLASS THAT HE COMPETES WITH LOOT FOR, and all of a sudden light blue disappears from raid rosters. That's why mages feel like we're left behind. Even if we do bring the bigdickdeeps it doesn't matter, one person doing an extra 150-200k does not equate to a entire raid being able to survive another 1-2 seconds longer.
    Last edited by Coldvibes; 2014-02-27 at 04:03 AM.

  14. #114
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    int buff. oh.. wait..

  15. #115
    Ok, so I keep hearing how raids are benching Mages in favour of Warlocks, due to how 'Locks are doing everything better than Mages, then I come across this post
    Class Distribution Data

    So according to that blog and charts, there are more lvl 90 Mages throughout MoP than Locks. There's even a chart with Mages comprising 9% in heroic raids compared to 6% for locks.

    So I'm kinda wondering if all these doom and gloom about mages aren't really just a perspective issue.

    *Assuming the data in the post is accurate and representative of the actual data, of course.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by nickseng View Post
    There's even a chart with Mages comprising 9% in heroic raids compared to 6% for locks.
    Thanks for that link, although what I can see on that chart is slightly different from your interpretation... just check that "Heroic raids" column again (and not the PVP one), you get 8% (mage) vs 9% (lock). Now compare these numbers to the lvl 90 class distribution, one column left, and therein lies the perspective issue.

  17. #117
    Ah right, I was looking at the wrong column after all.

    Proceed with the whining then

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by barackohmama View Post
    The reason you dont have utility is that you top the dps charts or close to it almost every tier. A mage in 10 man almost always has a guaranteed spot with TW even if shammies also have it, some guilds arent lucky enough to have plenty of lusters. in 25 man buffs classes overlap so if youre not getting a spot youre probably just bad. 25 man also means that you have every raid utility you need already. Stop whining.
    Right, because warlocks dont top the dps meters at all right? You never ever see a destruction warlock just smashing the dps meters and then the AoE comes in and they just fire and brimstone everything, BOOM 1 mil dps leaving everyone else far behind.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickseng View Post
    Ok, so I keep hearing how raids are benching Mages in favour of Warlocks, due to how 'Locks are doing everything better than Mages, then I come across this post
    Class Distribution Data

    So according to that blog and charts, there are more lvl 90 Mages throughout MoP than Locks. There's even a chart with Mages comprising 9% in heroic raids compared to 6% for locks.

    So I'm kinda wondering if all these doom and gloom about mages aren't really just a perspective issue.

    *Assuming the data in the post is accurate and representative of the actual data, of course.
    Not sure if you looked at your own link.

    http://cynwise.files.wordpress.com/2...nged-specs.png

    Guess what class that dark red line is at the top in 5.4.2, bearing in mind Warlocks are one of the least popular classes.

  20. #120
    Mages raid utiliy is damage. And we cant really be angry about our damage once out of Sunwell.

    But i agree, locks got the full package.

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