1. #1

    Other mage theorycrafting websites ?

    I was curious as to whether any of our resident mages were aware of any other useful mage specific websites, particularly if any existed on par with what Elitisk Jerks used to be circa 2009 (oriented towards both mathematics and practical nuances of gameplay.) This forum has some of that, of course, thanks to excellent contributions by a few. Just wondering about my "unknown unknowns", as the poet Rumsfeld once put it.

  2. #2
    Other than this site, the Method forums and Icy-veins there isn't too much out there. We don't have our Howtopriest or a mage who blogs like Thek does about tanks. For the most up to date information there are really two options right now for us mages 1. Figuring it out on our own or 2. Networking. The best way to theorycraft with mages is to know a lot of mages, most of the theorycraft info that ends up on these forums starts out as word of mouth on skype or btag, people just talking with their friends about what did you do here or there on certain bosses. Now as for the hard math theorycrafting, that sort of stuff will end up here, but it's more start of the expansion and a little bit each raid patch kind of stuff, at this point in the expansion there is nothing really to math out.

  3. #3
    I have also been looking for other mage theory crafting websites since it seems mmo-champion, vykina's post on methods forum, and icy veins is almost all consumed with people asking elementary questions. But yes, Voltaa is correct in saying there's not much to theorycraft but something that I haven't seen people talk about or have mathematical reasoning behind is if it is worth it to keep 100% uptime on lb or nt as fire or just to keep the pyromaniac debuff up 100%. The easy answer would be to say keep 100% uptime on mage bomb but in current gear levels, the low damage from the mage bombs makes me curious if it is worth the extra globals over the course of the fight for that uptime is worth it. I've seen top logs from fire mages with lower uptimes on their mage bomb but it could be unintentional.

    Sorry for any grammar mistakes- I'm on my phone

  4. #4
    something that I haven't seen people talk about or have mathematical reasoning behind is if it is worth it to keep 100% uptime on lb or nt as fire or just to keep the pyromaniac debuff up 100%
    It most likely hasn't been asked; hence why you haven't see in it.
    This type of question would be better asked in either A) Fire Mage guide or B) Vykina's forum.

    Come Beta time, patch or expansion release this place will be booming with theorycrafting again. Tbh, there isn't much to be done anymore (hence why all elementary questions (people playing Mage for the first time, main change, etc.)). There's nothing wrong with elementary questions. Not much else to be done anyways.
    Last edited by Mastamage; 2014-02-26 at 11:22 PM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastamage View Post
    It most likely hasn't been asked; hence why you haven't see in it.
    This type of question would be better asked in either A) Fire Mage guide or B) Vykina's forum.

    Come Beta time, patch or expansion release this place will be booming with theorycrafting again. Tbh, there isn't much to be done anymore (hence why all elementary questions (people playing Mage for the first time, main change, etc.)). There's nothing wrong with elementary questions. Not much else to be done anyways.
    I'm not asking the question because I want it answered here, just was giving an example of something that could be theory crafted. Don't want an answer from vykina who doesn't even play fire right now and mostly plays his alts and hasn't been active with fire recently or on any other mage guides because most content on fire mages guides are basic and the people I would ask the question to do not have any special answers to anything but basic questions. If you read my post it clearly says there isn't much to theorycraft except that question I proposed I never asked Voltaa or anyone for the answer and didn't post to get the answer.

  6. #6
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    I was curious about the Pyromaniac debuff at the start of the xpac too. Right now the DoT damage outweighs the few extra globals refreshing it so the short answer is probably bomb uptime > Pyromaniac uptime.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Hasted View Post
    I was curious about the Pyromaniac debuff at the start of the xpac too. Right now the DoT damage outweighs the few extra globals refreshing it so the short answer is probably bomb uptime > Pyromaniac uptime.
    You do know that bomb damage goes down relative with gear, right? Don't know why it would be a question at the start of the xpac and a certain answer now. You also didn't provide any reason to think DoT uptime is more important than just keeping pyromaniac up. Pyromaniac debuff is 15 seconds and living bomb duration is around 12 seconds ~ so using 20% more globals on living bomb doesn't seem to be more potent than throwing out more pyros given how much damage it is doing right now. Of course the closer you get to a breakpoint the shorter duration lb is so you would be using globals more frequently with keeping up living bomb, which makes theorycrafting of this variable messy because of 2pce and meta. Just ideas.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irlwizard View Post
    You do know that bomb damage goes down relative with gear, right? Don't know why it would be a question at the start of the xpac and a certain answer now. You also didn't provide any reason to think DoT uptime is more important than just keeping pyromaniac up. Pyromaniac debuff is 15 seconds and living bomb duration is around 12 seconds ~ so using 20% more globals on living bomb doesn't seem to be more potent than throwing out more pyros given how much damage it is doing right now. Of course the closer you get to a breakpoint the shorter duration lb is so you would be using globals more frequently with keeping up living bomb, which makes theorycrafting of this variable messy because of 2pce and meta. Just ideas.
    The bombs in general were MUCH weaker pre ToT due to low secondary stats and overall damage. They were worth keeping up back then as well; but few weeks into ToT they recieved massive buffs, making them typically in the top 3 for damage done. The DPET for bombs is typically higher than that of other spells, and consequently the time spent casting the bomb when it is down is a larger net gain than casting another spell.

    Haste between breakpoints does in fact lower their relative DPET however it still remains higher than that of most other spells. Furthermore you generally want to be stacking Haste up to the breakpoints (I may be wrong about this for this tier because I'm not 100% up to date on Fire).

    The 3 second gap between your bomb falling off is roughly enough time for 2 casts factoring in the GCD and instant casts (3 under the best case scenario). This could potentially yield higher damage under the right conditions but that's left up to RNG. The 3 second window is essentially just padding for the natural human error that comes with uptimes. Losing out on damage because you didn't stop your cast to refresh your bomb wouldn't be fun gameplay; and neither would wasting the time waiting to refresh (even though refreshing early isn't the worst thing in the world). Keeping your bomb up on the other hand is consistent damage that pays for its cast time and then some.

    For the sake of being thorough I'll clarify that this is primarily speculation based on extensive experience and SimC values. I haven't done any math on this myself so if someone is interested in proving me wrong I would be interested to see what the actual difference between the two methods.

  9. #9
    Fire: Vikina's guide on Method forum
    http://www.methodwow.com/board/showt...ire-Mage-Guide
    Arcane/Frost: MMO or Icy Veins

    just don't use Noxxic
    Last edited by Quetesh; 2014-02-28 at 11:22 AM.

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