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  1. #181
    Dreadlord Nivena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asrialol View Post
    I really don't get the whole "ability bloat" problem. I mean, from buttons 1-5 you have 15-20 keybinds alone using modifiers. Then you have Q, E, R, T, F, G, H, Y, V ,C , X, Z, <, etc. That's more than 40 keybinds with modifiers. I'm yet to see the need to keybind this many abilities, but on my shaman, not at all. What's the problem? Bad players with bad motor control?
    You know my hand is huge (I can hold a basketball in one hand)....ctrl-1 is so awkward for example

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Asrialol View Post
    I really don't get the whole "ability bloat" problem. I mean, from buttons 1-5 you have 15-20 keybinds alone using modifiers. Then you have Q, E, R, T, F, G, H, Y, V ,C , X, Z, <, etc. That's more than 40 keybinds with modifiers. I'm yet to see the need to keybind this many abilities, but on my shaman, not at all. What's the problem? Bad players with bad motor control?
    My keybinds:
    1-6
    Shift + 1-5
    CTRL + 1-6
    Q + SQ (Shift Q) + CQ (CTRL Q)
    E + SE + CE
    S + SS
    R + SR + CR
    F + SF + CF
    T + ST
    X + SX
    C + SC + CC
    G + SG
    V + V
    <
    ½
    MB3 + MB4 + MB5

    That's a total of 47 keybinds.. My enhancement and elemental specs has a total of 42 keybinds and my resto spec has a total of 46 keybinds. My elemental in total have a possible 45 keybinds from spells in the spellbook alone and Resto has a total of 46 keybinds in spells. (This is my current talent selection, so this can vary as well)

    Then you add stuff like macros, mounts, racials, etc., and remove crap like far sight, primal strike, etc. and I'm at 46 keybinds as Resto. Though I do have two mounts keybinded (ST and CT), with CT being repair mount and ST being Flying and ground mounts (Macro).

    Honestly I don't mind having 46 or ~42 keybinds, since I enjoy optimizing my keybinds as well. Like having CL as C4 as resto and recall totem as C3 as elemental. It is an additional way to optimize my character.

  3. #183
    While I agree with Blizzard (it's a rare thing !), I disagree with the interpretation most of you have made. I feel they have to think which change they have made since the burning crusade truly added interesting choices and which ones were made just to balance/fill up. I will take few examples :

    We can cast lightning bolt while moving. It was made to balance the elemental shaman on movement encounters, but it remove a bit of necessity to think about your positionning. Thinking about your positionning is - at least for me - an interesting thing, both in PVE and PVP.

    The capacitor totem, combined with totemic projection feel an interesting cc to me, because the opponent have it chance to avoid it. When they're thinking about removing CC, I hope they will keep this one and rather remove instant and unavoidable CCs.

    I read somewhere in this thread that frost shock shouldn't share the same CD as other shocks. I disagree because I think that (for ele shamans at least) having to choose between kitting (frost shock) or flame shock is an interresting choice for example (and it's not that obvious to make).

    When I'm thinking about things who dumbed down the gameplay, I think about the current state of the Rsham in 25m raiding with all those "clever" heals : the 5.3/5.4 chain heal, having to use unleash before every healing rain, having to put down healing rain 100% of the time or having to use healing stream totem on CD. And yes they added buttons and choices but before we had to do things who were way more interesting : choosing between a direct heal or chain heal, having to react quickly. I was able to see the result of my decisions outside from the logs.

    And removing shileds, weapons enhancement or some fire totem because we use them less frequently won't chance anything of this. Far sight is a cool spell, even sometimes usefull in BG ! You don't need to keybind it (I know they won't remove it so I dont care). I think they're talking about removing core spells and I really hope they will do it wisely.
    Last edited by FMA; 2014-03-03 at 02:02 PM.

  4. #184
    The Patient Starsinn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asrialol View Post
    I really don't get the whole "ability bloat" problem. I mean, from buttons 1-5 you have 15-20 keybinds alone using modifiers. Then you have Q, E, R, T, F, G, H, Y, V ,C , X, Z, <, etc. That's more than 40 keybinds with modifiers. I'm yet to see the need to keybind this many abilities, but on my shaman, not at all. What's the problem? Bad players with bad motor control?
    Number of keybinds is not what blizzard is using to determine ability bloat, redundant or abilities that just get macrod together is. Shadow blades/adrenaline rush, recklessness/skull banner/avatar, stormlash/ascendance etc.

    Shadowblades is a good example. It does nothing to alter your gameplay, its literally just a +damage button.
    Being constructive feels good. You should try it.

  5. #185
    My understanding of the "ability bloat" situation and Blizz moving to address it comes from both a number of keybinds needed as well as rarely used, highly situational or abilities that are always macroed together perspective.

    Shaman have a lot of situational abilities (Hex, Bind Elemental, weapon imbues that aren't Earthliving or Flame, a pile of totems, etc) and ones we always use together or in sequence (Ascendence + SLT, Unleash + Healing Rain, for example) and it all makes for needless clutter. So I believe Blizz is looking to address this type of scenario.

  6. #186
    I would love less totems binds! haha

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Seditian View Post
    Totems are the biggest problem of Shamans. Instead of just planting them down once every five minutes, you now have ten different totems, all with a specific scenario when to place them.
    Completely agree. I was fine with how totems worked in Cata, and my Enhancement Shaman quickly became my favorite alt..slated to be my main come MoP...until I saw how they broke totem use. I'd be thrilled if they just put totems back to the way they were in Cata. You could save four combos of totems, and after that, one button press and done. I don't see where that was hard or time consuming, especially now where my rotation involves the addition of individually managing every single totem. How is that an improvement? They should fire the brainiac who came with that idea to make totem management "easier".

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Fhina View Post
    Completely agree. I was fine with how totems worked in Cata, and my Enhancement Shaman quickly became my favorite alt..slated to be my main come MoP...until I saw how they broke totem use. I'd be thrilled if they just put totems back to the way they were in Cata. You could save four combos of totems, and after that, one button press and done. I don't see where that was hard or time consuming, especially now where my rotation involves the addition of individually managing every single totem. How is that an improvement? They should fire the brainiac who came with that idea to make totem management "easier".
    I agree to a point.
    If there are to be a large number of totems, we should be able to create a set as we could in Cata. Using totems to answer the "need raid cooldowns" request was a rather cludgy response that requires the use of addons to manage properly (ie trackers for cooldowns, expirations, durations).
    If there are to be fewer totems, then the current system is ok. But the current model of lots of totems dropped individually is the class' single biggest flaw, I feel.

    Even with the totem sets, we still used other totems separately, like Tremor, Grounding, Earthbind and so on, thus we were managing both systems simultaneously, which wasn't great either. We need a middle ground that is effective and fun.

  9. #189
    The Patient Starsinn's Avatar
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    Yeah. Dropping a whole set of totems just to get a grounding down then go back to your default set was too hard on mana. Using totemic recall was too many globals. You needed to bind each totem separately anyway. Current system is best we have had.
    Being constructive feels good. You should try it.

  10. #190
    Saying totems should go back to the way they were is the height of ignorance. Two or three out of four totems we had in each setup was a buff totem, and those are now auras which is MUCH better. Another totem would be searing, which is placed as always. If at all, the 4th totem would be a situational totem. If not, the usual setup consisted of three buff totems and a fire totem for dps.

    The only difference is visuals, and even that is back to old days if you get the minor glyph. If you dont get that all the new system is, is more utility overal and more significance of said utility PLUS convinient raid buffs, you seriously dont know what you're talking about.

    The old totem system was crap³. The only thing I miss with the new one is lessened restrictions on totems. Almost all our cds can be 1shot by everyone, are immobile, are now unusable while silenced and you can only plant one of every element. It's crappy subpar, and blizz offering halfassed ways around those weak points via the totem talent tier doesn't improve it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angoth
    I'm sorry that Blizzard won't just gift wrap awesome in a cup and let you drink your fill.

  11. #191
    I never understood why Blizzard couldn't just give totems x "charges." When it takes damage a charge is removed and when there are no more charges, it's destroyed. You can even put a damage minimum, this way they never have to worry about health scaling and it takes some effort to kill a totem.

  12. #192
    Totems are, I think, a constant design pain. There's never been a *great* solution to how they work, and yes, the current system is pretty much overall the best way but there are too many of them.
    Blizz doesn't want totems to be a passive buff, but they also want to reduce the number of cooldowns. I'm curious as to what the solution is going to be this time around.

  13. #193
    Scarab Lord Volitar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asrialol View Post
    I really don't get the whole "ability bloat" problem. I mean, from buttons 1-5 you have 15-20 keybinds alone using modifiers. Then you have Q, E, R, T, F, G, H, Y, V ,C , X, Z, <, etc. That's more than 40 keybinds with modifiers. I'm yet to see the need to keybind this many abilities, but on my shaman, not at all. What's the problem? Bad players with bad motor control?
    I have 60+keybinds on my Shaman and I don't even have any PVP binds so..I'm sure people who pvp think things are out of control.

  14. #194
    I agree with Anzen's list but would add Unleash Elements...as a resto shaman I think it adds very little skill challenge while being an annoying time waste in the era of snipe heals and bubble absorbs

  15. #195
    Warchief Humbugged's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anzen View Post
    Remove:

    Magma Totem
    Earthquake
    Bind Elemental
    Rockbiter Weapon
    Stormlash Totem

    Lack of use and/or boring.

    I'd settle for Stormlash being off the GCD though!
    You're speaking purely of Enh, right? I'd hate to see Elemental Shaman lose Earthquake.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tradewind View Post
    The non-sequitur derp is reaching critical mass...and it's not even page 2 yet.

    Talk about peaking early.

  16. #196
    Well only Ele has Earthquake. I'd assume it's safe to say he/she is talking about Ele.
    Quote Originally Posted by Loaf Lord View Post
    Why? I imagine dealing with lions takes a great amount of knowledge and testicular fortitude.

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by Humbugged View Post
    You're speaking purely of Enh, right? I'd hate to see Elemental Shaman lose Earthquake.
    In its current state, I wouldn't be bothered if we lost Earthquake. It's one of those 'this seems cool, but Blizzard doesn't really know how to make it work' abilities. If it were revamped, or were worth casting over Chain Lightning (cast time reduction, maybe some more things) then it'd be pretty appealing.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Anzen View Post
    Remove:

    Magma Totem
    Earthquake
    Bind Elemental
    Rockbiter Weapon
    Stormlash Totem

    Lack of use and/or boring.

    I'd settle for Stormlash being off the GCD though!
    I agree with this list, only other one I would add (though I like it) is Capacitor totem. They are gutting a lot of cc and really targeting aoe cc on other classes. It looks like....so, once again (dont quote me on this), I wouldnt be surprised if we lost our aoe stun totem for a second time.

    And maybe, though I still use it from time to time as ele, but frostbrand enh only? Im honestly guessing here.

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