New/returning raiders.. why even try raiding?

[Deleted]

Because you would like to give it a shot, see what happens?

With my guild we started in Normals 3-4 weeks ago, 6/14, 3 hours a week and I'm having the time of my life!
Not knowing when the nerfs are coming in, it's a race against time for us to get Garrosh down.

Just 3-5 of us have past experience with raiding, for the others this is the first time they do Normal progression.

Feels good, yo.

[Styxxa]

It's been said over and over again in this thread, but 540 is not an outlandish requset for SoO normal - or even the later wings of Flex. My guild only got to 10/13 hc in ToT - many of those guildies were latecomers to the tier and we barely "farmed" that instance. We had an average ilvl of ~540 coming into SoO normal - and it felt about the right difficulty for us up until Thok. There were still a whole bunch of Flex items that were considered upgrades to us even during the first few weeks of normal/heroic progress (obviously that's changed now).

I've played only 2 characters this expansion - my main which is ~575 (11/14hc) and my main alt which is ~560 (14/14n). Only recently I leveled my 2nd alt to 90 and geared him up. Even without a legendary cloak he is ~545 now with what seemed like not that much effort - running LFR, Flex wing by wing, ToT runs, Timeless Isle, world bosses, AH, and valor upgrades. But I wouldn't even have thought about stepping into an SoO normal until he was 540 - even though I'm 110% sure of tactics - because I would have considered that to be getting carried.

I know for our guild, when we pug - or even take our guildies - we ask for around the average iLvl of the group (+/- 10) and I think that's totally fair. If we were all on our 520 alts, we'd ask for 520, but if we were all 560, well we're not bringing your 520 toon. It's not fair to anyone int the group to string along someone who's undergeared and not carrying their weight - including the undergeared person who is just going to get snickered at and whispered about all raid.

The bottom line is if raiding is your goal, you're going to do what it takes to get there, whether that be iLvl or achievements or both. So just go do that instead of coming on here and whining about how you can't achieve what you want.

[willemh]

Invest some time into writing a good apply to any ~8/14 hc guild raiding 2 days a week and you'll get in without issues without any gear requirements.

Personally I'm leading a 25man heroic guild (11/14 HC atm) and the only requirement I ask from trials is cloak and activity. I coudnt care less if they are 540 ilvl or 560ilvl because all their gear is being replaced with heroic items in the first week anyway. I'm sure for a ~8/14 hc guild the requirements are quite a bit lower then that (aka no cloak) then the only thing remaining is finding a guild that suits your playtimes, and there are plenty for anyone.

[Deleted]

It's very hard to "earn" it when you cant get in to pugs cause you need Experience, yet you cant get any cause of the requirement, and guilds ask the same. So you pretty much have to know someone just to get you into raiding. So People like me who would love to work hard for gear, dont get the chance.

Been reading all pages so far and while I too think the OP is whining over something that's quite natural in a game like this, I also understand the dilemma for new or returning players.

That said, there's tons of things one can do and most of them have already been mentioned. But what you say here, isn't my experience. My guild finished Heroic Garrosh mid December and yet we've been doing a weekly full Flex run every Friday for months now. Bringing every single social in the guild who wants to join, even bringing friends of socials who're shit geared. We carry on a few mains and bring even more mains for the last 3 bosses if need be. We do this without complaining and without any sort of requirements to our socials.

Requirements to join as social? None, just don't be an asshole. I wanna bet, that there's plenty of other guilds doing this. But obviously you can't just make a whiny post on a forum and expect the guilds to invite you^^

@OP: How can you expect random people to take the risk it is bringing an ilvl 515 player to the raid, when they can get a 540 player in stead? ilvl 515 stinks so much of "I'm too lazy or too ignorant to know how to get some more gear and I just want a boost" tbh. Cause as many others have pointed out, you can easily get a lot higher just by doing LFR - which has basically zero requirements. But I guess you're too cool to do LFR?

I have zero sympathy for lazy people and it is indeed lazy, if you claim that you're stuck on ilvl 515 and the only way to get higher ilvl is if someone else boosts you. I could understand it, if you were like 540 and couldn't get into a Flex run but then I'd tell you to make your own run. I mean, the leader of a group sets the requirements. Only that would require you to know the encounters well enough to "raid lead" and it would require you to be willing to bring players with equally shit gear. Cause nobody with a decent ilvl (for Flex) i.e 535+ would ever consider joining your group, if you yourself only have 515. That would be considered "boosting".

But I guess it's always easier to take the moral high ground and demand that everyone else should lower their requirements, just so you don't have to put in the effort.....

[miffy23]

So to new & or returning old raiders. Why even try raiding right now in WoW?

Seriously.. Ive raided since late LK up to DS in a really good raiding guild. MoP came out so I went and tried PvP for a while and 5.4 I wanted to get back into raiding. So when did raiding become a elitist fest? 540+ flex.. 550+ normal? Must have cloak? Shitting me? So you're telling me that you have to have a item level above what you cant even achieve to do flex/normal and only way to get that item level is to do those? Timeless isle & LFR is the only options for people that dont meet these crazy requirements. Hows a casual suppose to raid? I guess in this new raiding world.. you dont. Not evenyone can play ya know 10 hours or more a day. for item levels. Remind you I am not complaining for me, because after a week or so of searching I found a guild not even from my server, not even someone from my guild that is willing to carry me and help me out to gear up. My own guild wont even run their low level geared players through flex to help gear them up. So me & a few guildies have left and I have just been raiding with a guild where I know no one.. dont even know the leader and right off dont even remember the guild name & they run me through flex and normal no questions asked, no ilvl bullshit nothing & been doing it for 2 weeks now. So my question is now, why should someone thats new to raiding be subject to put up with this none sense of people thats been raiding all expansion put a number you have to get to be apart of raiding. It doesn't matter what item level you have obviously so I wouldent be getting runs right now. My dps is right up there with the people that has 540+ (mine being 515) I just dont see why someone that would want to raid put up with the restrictions on getting into pugs. The guild aspect is simple, if a guild wants you to raid, tells you to get a higher item level then you can raid with them well then one option, leave. If someone isn't willing to help you out, you should not stick around to help them.

Its funny really, Im raiding with a guild cross server with people I dont even know that I found on OQ, and friends/guild mates on my own server aren't willing to spend a hour from sitting in org doing nothing to help out their own guildies. Sorry its just a little rant I had to get off my chest. Let me have some feedback, if you're new to raiding.. what your experiences have been like. I know 99% of ppl on here will complain but oh well.

Note: Why not join another guild then? Im on a high pop server, Ive been in 5+ guilds since 5.4 released & I started to try and raid. Its these kids attitudes and disrespect for new comers that leave sourer taste in peoples mouths.

You answered your own question - by stating how you competed in dps with 540 people in pugs while you were in 515. LFR and other casual activities have given very bad and clueless players gear that doesn't reflect their actual ability. This was the case in the past as well, but not to this extent. The majority of pugs ask for higher ilvl than necessary not because they want to be carried, but because out of experience we know that MOST puggers don't ever perform to the level of their gear. That is to say, 510 or so geared people (which is plenty to complete Flex 1, 2, 3 if you know what you are doing) SHOULD be sufficient for Flex, but are almost never.

If you're not in a guild that supports you, you will simply have a hard time of getting to the gear you want/need. However, when was this ever not the case, especially in the last tier of the expansion?

[Nalam the Venom]

People want fast and smooth runs, that means no bad geared people.. the ones doing flex only need maby 1-2 items but mainly looms i think, so they don't wanna have someone with them that just drags down the grp with it's low dps

[Deleted]

I think I have to echo the sentiment that sometimes you have to work for it.

I have fallen behind massively, swapping mains every few months, utter mess of an expansion for me due to my own indecision.

I raid old content with a warrior, but it is my shaman I am working on seriously. I started with 450 4 weeks ago, I am now up to 520 and expect to be in a place where I can start normals in three weeks or so (when I finish the legendary quest, have my legs drop off the celestials (it's got to happen soon!) and get a few more LFR drops).

There are likely tonnes of guilds who are needing to bolster ranks who would take me on as I am, but pulling my weight is important to me and I also believe the effort I am going to will be something looked upon favourably and eventually get me into a better guild.

Complaining won't do anything about the situation.

[Skippy88]

My suggestion at 515 to hang out on the Timeless Isle and do a few more LFR's. I was able to get 545 without doing a single Flex run.

Good luck!

[Drayarr]

I'm currently social/"casual" raiding 1 day a week up to malk 25 heroic atm.
Stop whining and man up.

[satimy]

The problem is that most players are bad at the game. So requiring an ilvl of 540 for flex 1 when you could easily do it in 502 gear is a way of trying to factor out peoples badness. Thats the problem with OQ, it shows you ilvl but not skill level. OQ has led many people to naively believe that having a 540 group will somehow prevent you from getting bad players. It doesn't it just negates the effect of them.

[Deleted]

farm timeless isle (coins/rares for 535, celestial, ordos), LFR and there are 553 crafted belt + legs and 522 crafted helm + boots.
It will get you to a very decent ilevel in no time. Start your own groups for flex or try www.openraid.eu. There are tons of flex raids there with low ilvl req and experience but with the demand for reading up on tactics and listening to RL instructions. Thats not hard for someone that has been raiding as long as you.

You want to join raiding at the end of the last tier in the expansion.. its possible, but put some damn effort in.

[Bill Nye the Spy]

I cleared the first 4 bosses of SoO as a tank first day with ilvl of 514, with no cloak. I stopped raiding after first day due to not liking SoO and I had school and work.

But yeah, there's no point in raiding this expac anymore. Elitists require crazy high ilvls and I don't have time for guild raiding. I find the 2nd tier of the xpac recently is always the best tier, that's when I get serious. Maybe this first tier in WoD will change things

Also there can't be any welfare Legendarys in the game, because then they become a requirement, which is a joke

[Museigen]

Wonder how many flex raids the op has set up, wrangeled people who can actually clear into showing up and raid led to victory for low geared random people. You know, since he has the gear now and his attitude is as long as a low geared player exists and claims to be awesome with no evidence they should be carried into gear without question.