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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by manicwrath View Post
    Ahhh... alas then it shows i know more than you



    http://www.wowhead.com/npc=9448#abilities
    http://www.wowhead.com/npc=46092#abilities
    http://www.wowhead.com/npc=9447#abilities




    Also there really isn't much to stop forsaken paladins from happening. So i'm quite excited for when they are playable.



    Actually human shamans do exist in game and a few mobs have been shown to use shaman abilities as well. Twilight hammer members and some mobs in stranglethorn if i remember and tanaris, you reasons for saying human shamans cant happen are laughable the emboldened bit made me laugh.

    can't tell if serious or trolling...... anyway night elves pretty much live throughout ALL of kalimdor, if you knew anything about the lore behind the races and classes you would know this.



    ohhhh.... so you know yourself 100% that a man'ari could never be considered a necessary evil to counter the legion? using fire to fight fire? who is to say that a draenei cannot become a warlock and not turn against their own race?

    I'm not sure what you missed, but all non-forsaken undeads do not have free will. Self harm isnt a problem for something being controlled like a puppet. The scarlet blade undead are just as much mindless ghouls as any others, just less rotten. A ghoul doesnt care if it is in pain, decaying and being torn apart because it is just a tool. there are NO undead with free will that are paladins.

  2. #162
    Fluffy Kitten Callei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    I'm not sure what you missed, but all non-forsaken undeads do not have free will. Self harm isnt a problem for something being controlled like a puppet. The scarlet blade undead are just as much mindless ghouls as any others, just less rotten. A ghoul doesnt care if it is in pain, decaying and being torn apart because it is just a tool. there are NO undead with free will that are paladins.
    With the Risen, it's also that they're shithouse crazy and probably enjoy the excruciating pain as proof that they're not really undead. None of the former Scarlet Crusade seem to believe they're undead--it seems they're under the same delusion the Headless Horseman is, with everyone else being the zombies in this equation.

    Awesome sig by Elyaan is awesome.

  3. #163
    No need for more we got enough!
    There will be no glory in your sacrifice. I will erase even the memory of Stormwind from the histories! Every piece of Alliance parchment shall be burned. Every Human historian, and every scribe shall have their eyes pulled out, and their tongues cut from their mouths. Why, uttering the very name of Stormwind, or Wrynn, will be punishable by death! The world will never know you existed at all!

  4. #164
    Mechagnome Awbee's Avatar
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    Generally, I think there shouldn't be many restrictions. Diversity is fun. Ideally, I'd say that restrictions should be removed completely since there can always be outliers, but I'm fine with certain restrictions as well.

    Every race should be able to have warriors and hunters, since there's nothing very "complicated" about these classes, no special magic or religious affiliation needed.

    The "complicated" classes in my opinion are:

    Warlock: inaccessible for races that are very "pure" or "good", thus inaccessible to Draenei, Night Elves, Pandaren and Tauren.

    Druid: inaccessible for races that don't care about nature, have no connection with it or outright destroy it for their profits. Thus absolutely inaccessible to Orcs, Goblins and Undead.
    Possible candidates: Humans, Dwarves, Gnomes.
    Draenei and Pandaren should be able to become druids, in my opinion.

    Shaman: not entirely sure here, it's complicated. In theory, I think almost every race should be able to communicate with the elements and / or spirits. Maybe all except Undead?

    Paladin: inaccessible for races that have actively oppose the holy light, thus inaccessible for Orcs, Trolls, Goblins. I'm not even gonna talk about Undead Paladins here, I find it annoying how that one combination always takes up all the talk in these kind of debates. It's up to Blizzard whether they find it appropriate or not.
    Worgen and Gnomes should be able to become Paladins.

    Priest and Mage: should probably also be accessible by all races, especially since it could be argued that some races (like Undead, and arguably Trolls) can only be Shadow Priests.
    I think Tauren Mage could happen, because hey, why couldn't a Tauren sit down and study spells and books. They're patient and intelligent.
    Orc Priest is hurting my head, but it could be argued that they can only be Shadow priests. Orc Mage already exists, I think, though that hurts my head as well.


    Race / class combinations that I think would make sense:

    Gnome Hunter: they can build very precise guns and traps, and as we've seen on the Darkmoon Faire, gnomes can easily command big animals!
    Gnome Paladin: they can already be priests, they are capable of learning about the holy light from the dwarves (and humans).
    Gnome Druid ... itty bitty cat and bear forms <3
    Gnome Shaman: if goblins can, why can't gnomes?

    (yes, I'm biased when it comes to gnomes plus they've got the least race / class combinations in the game, and have been getting the short end of the stick (no pun intended) in the lore for too long anways .. throw them a bone!)

    Night Elf Paladin
    Night Elf Shaman

    Draenei Druid

    Worgen Paladin
    Worgen Shaman
    Worgen Monk

    Pandaren Druid

    Tauren Mage

    Goblin Monk


    Also, maybe:

    Human Druid
    Human Shaman


    Dwarf Druid

    Blood Elf Shaman
    Blood Elf Druid

  5. #165
    Orc everything because Orc master race. I'd play every class in the game, except for a Hunter because nobody likes them.

    On topic, though. Here are some statistics.

    Alliance:

    Death Knight - 6
    Druid - 2
    Hunter - 6
    Mage - 7
    Monk - 6
    Paladin - 3
    Priest - 7
    Rogue - 6
    Shaman - 3
    Warlock - 4
    Warrior - 7

    Total: 57


    Horde:

    Death Knight - 6
    Druid - 2
    Hunter - 7
    Mage - 6
    Monk - 6
    Paladin - 2
    Priest - 6
    Rogue - 6
    Shaman - 5
    Warlock - 5
    Warrior - 7

    Total: 58

    Both factions have the ability to play a Warrior as any race, while they're only limited to two Druid's each. Alliance have the most playable classes as Mages and Priests, while Horde have the most as Hunters. These statistics included all races and classes.

    Statistics aside, I'd probably introduce Gnome Hunters and Orc Priests. Everybody should be able to play the three main archetypes that are in every RPG such as Warrior, Priest and Hunter (though can be interchanged with a Rogue, Draenei and Tauren just don't fit that role period).
    Last edited by Blitheqt; 2014-03-01 at 07:02 PM.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Callei View Post
    With the Risen, it's also that they're shithouse crazy and probably enjoy the excruciating pain as proof that they're not really undead. None of the former Scarlet Crusade seem to believe they're undead--it seems they're under the same delusion the Headless Horseman is, with everyone else being the zombies in this equation.
    Exactly. Undead Paladins exist, yes, but none exist as forsaken in the horde. All other undead are under control, by Bolvar , or just insane and continue to just do their thing. How much of their mind remains is unknown, but none of them are like the forsaken in the horde, which regained their control when Arthas was loosing strength before heading out to sit on his cold chair. The forsaken have full control of themselves, and are not mad. Now Sylvannas has been messing around with the Valkyr and plague, but the forsaken being risen from Dethknel, the players, are not mind controlled and are not insane.

  7. #167
    High Overlord Micromadsen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blitheqt View Post
    Alliance:
    Total: 57

    Horde
    Total: 57
    You need to go over those numbers again mate. Horde has one more available to them. You only put in 3 Shamans for the Alliance and 4 for the Horde. But there are infact 5 Shamans on the Horde.

    Alliance Shaman: Dwarf, Draenei, Pandaren.

    Horde Shaman: Orc, Tauren, Troll, Goblin and Pandaren.

  8. #168
    I hope you people realize that the introduction of Night Elf Mages as a playable race/class combination is because the Shen'dralar Highborne asked Tyrande to lift their exile and allow them to reintegrate into Night Elven society.


    The Shen'dralar Highborne lived in Dire Maul if you didn't know. The Shen'dralar, under Prince Tortheldrin, imprisoned a Demon called Immol'thar and siphoned his Fel energy, granting them immortality. There were Warlocks within the Highborne caste. The Shen'dralar siphoned the energies of a Demon for thousands of years.

    http://wowpedia.org/Quest:Shadow_Lord_Fel%27dan

    "He is nearly more Demon than Orc by now."

    Fel'dan is a demonic Orc due to his exposure and harnessing of Fel energy. Orcs don't live as long as the Elves do, and the Shen'dralar had spent thousands of years more than Fel'dan being saturated with the Fel energy. The Shen'dralar Elves weren't only Mages, there certainly was Shen'dralar Warlocks, Mages don't enslave or bind Demons and they don't feed off of their blood.

    If anything it would make more sense if Night Elves could be Warlocks not Mages.

    The Shen'dralar imprisoned Immol'thar thousands of years before the High Elves were slaughtered in Quel'thalas. After the destruction of Quel'thalas, the majority of the surviving High Elves renamed themselves Blood Elves and some Blood Elves started draining Fel energy from Demons, which caused the entirety of the Blood Elven faction to be affected by the Fel energy, their eyes becoming Green. All of the Orcs, barring the Mag'har Orcs, were tainted by Fel magic even an individual Orc has never directly consumed Fel energy.

    You would think that if the Orcs and Blood Elves underwent a physical transformation due to exposure to Fel energy in a matter of months or a few years then the Shen'dralar Elves, who was exposed to Fel energy for thousands of years, would have features signaling demonic exposure.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by VisionOfPerfection View Post
    I hope you people realize that the introduction of Night Elf Mages as a playable race/class combination is because the Shen'dralar Highborne asked Tyrande to lift their exile and allow them to reintegrate into Night Elven society.


    The Shen'dralar Highborne lived in Dire Maul if you didn't know. The Shen'dralar, under Prince Tortheldrin, imprisoned a Demon called Immol'thar and siphoned his Fel energy, granting them immortality. There were Warlocks within the Highborne caste. The Shen'dralar siphoned the energies of a Demon for thousands of years.

    http://wowpedia.org/Quest:Shadow_Lord_Fel%27dan

    "He is nearly more Demon than Orc by now."

    Fel'dan is a demonic Orc due to his exposure and harnessing of Fel energy. Orcs don't live as long as the Elves do, and the Shen'dralar had spent thousands of years more than Fel'dan being saturated with the Fel energy. The Shen'dralar Elves weren't only Mages, there certainly was Shen'dralar Warlocks, Mages don't enslave or bind Demons and they don't feed off of their blood.

    If anything it would make more sense if Night Elves could be Warlocks not Mages.

    The Shen'dralar imprisoned Immol'thar thousands of years before the High Elves were slaughtered in Quel'thalas. After the destruction of Quel'thalas, the majority of the surviving High Elves renamed themselves Blood Elves and some Blood Elves started draining Fel energy from Demons, which caused the entirety of the Blood Elven faction to be affected by the Fel energy, their eyes becoming Green. All of the Orcs, barring the Mag'har Orcs, were tainted by Fel magic even an individual Orc has never directly consumed Fel energy.

    You would think that if the Orcs and Blood Elves underwent a physical transformation due to exposure to Fel energy in a matter of months or a few years then the Shen'dralar Elves, who was exposed to Fel energy for thousands of years, would have features signaling demonic exposure.
    An excellent point. Sub races and the mixing of cultures should be giving us more options than we currently have. Another example would be the Grimtotem splinter group that sided with Baine against Magatha in one of the books. The Grimtotem have rogues. Not particularly stealthy rogues, but still rogues. The sort that would be described as a bandit. These are fighting for Thunder Bluff now, but you couldn't tell from the character creation screen.

    Now, if they implemented sub-race skins for some of these, that would fully justify the new combos in and of itself. Same way as DKs all have their own skin selections, Tauren rogues might only be able to choose one of the Grimtotem skins. And so on.

    That reminds me of another possibility, regarding the undead paladin. Say they add a skeleton sub race to the Forsaken. You know there are some in there. Now think about how difficult it would be for a fleshless skeleton with no nervous system to feel pain, or decay. What's stopping him from being a paladin? Nothing.

  10. #170
    Elemental Lord Snowraven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    Worgen were harvest witches, only weak nature magic prior to the turn where they became stronger because of the druidic ties with the curse


    Most of those trample over existing lore.
    1. You make a fair point here actually.
    2. Yes, dwarves are still great.
    3. But gnomes do long range weapons. So Gnome Marksman sounds kind of normal, does it not? Well marksman is a spec of the hunter. What about Survival, it was shown gnomes lay traps and such, so it fits them too. Oh, Beastmaster doesn't fit them? Fair enough, neither does Holy for forsaken priests.

    4. The Priesthood of Elune is an order. But to put this issue to rest, this here is a Priestess of the Moon:

    "The fearless leaders of the Sentinel army, the Priestesses of the Moon epitomize the power and grace of their race's ancient Moon Goddess, Elune. The Priestesses, equipped with silvery, glowing armor, ride the fearless Frostsaber tigers of Winterspring into battle. Charged with the safekeeping of the night elf lands and armed with magical energy bows - the Priestesses will stop at nothing to rid their ancient land of evil."
    Let's replace bows with swords. Now they sound like paladins all the sudden, don't they?
    But let's also look at some of their abilities:
    "Searing Arrows - Increases the damage of the Priestess' attack by adding fire."
    Wait, fire? You mean like Holy fire on paladin weapons? Well, another resemblance then.
    "Trueshot Aura - An aura that gives friendly units around the Priestess bonus damage to their ranged attacks."
    Like the aura paladins had for melee.

    So, overall, besides the bow, a Priestess of the Moon in the Priesthood of Elune is just a paladin of Elune.

    5. They are in a giant tree? How about for the last 10k years when they interacted with furbolgs all the time? How about just now when they interact with draenei next door. How about in Hyjal where they had to interact with elements everywhere and had Thrall help heal Nordrassil? Didn't they interact with elements then? How about when seeing the tauren bring streams and give birth to what they, night elves, love, plants, by doing this?
    6. Yes... but they also are trying to learn from the Broken. And the broken excel at stealhy things.
    7. Why are paladins immune and priests are not?

    8. Ok, true for orcs, they're more with the Shadow side, I agree.
    9. True, trolls are also great.
    10. Ok, you're right here. I just couldn't think of anything else for forsaken.
    11. Except Grimtotem, which do, as I stated.
    12. But they don't need to be in the Cenarion Circle. I remember in the blood elf starting zone that they had different wards and things to control the nature around, think it's around the first quests. Yes, blood elves bend nature to their will much like taunka shamans bend the elements to their will, unlike other types of shaman. But it works.
    13. Didn't all races learn the ways of the monk after Pandaria was discovered?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by VisionOfPerfection View Post
    I hope you people realize that the introduction of Night Elf Mages as a playable race/class combination is because the Shen'dralar Highborne asked Tyrande to lift their exile and allow them to reintegrate into Night Elven society.


    The Shen'dralar Highborne lived in Dire Maul if you didn't know. The Shen'dralar, under Prince Tortheldrin, imprisoned a Demon called Immol'thar and siphoned his Fel energy, granting them immortality. There were Warlocks within the Highborne caste. The Shen'dralar siphoned the energies of a Demon for thousands of years.

    http://wowpedia.org/Quest:Shadow_Lord_Fel%27dan

    "He is nearly more Demon than Orc by now."

    Fel'dan is a demonic Orc due to his exposure and harnessing of Fel energy. Orcs don't live as long as the Elves do, and the Shen'dralar had spent thousands of years more than Fel'dan being saturated with the Fel energy. The Shen'dralar Elves weren't only Mages, there certainly was Shen'dralar Warlocks, Mages don't enslave or bind Demons and they don't feed off of their blood.

    If anything it would make more sense if Night Elves could be Warlocks not Mages.

    The Shen'dralar imprisoned Immol'thar thousands of years before the High Elves were slaughtered in Quel'thalas. After the destruction of Quel'thalas, the majority of the surviving High Elves renamed themselves Blood Elves and some Blood Elves started draining Fel energy from Demons, which caused the entirety of the Blood Elven faction to be affected by the Fel energy, their eyes becoming Green. All of the Orcs, barring the Mag'har Orcs, were tainted by Fel magic even an individual Orc has never directly consumed Fel energy.

    You would think that if the Orcs and Blood Elves underwent a physical transformation due to exposure to Fel energy in a matter of months or a few years then the Shen'dralar Elves, who was exposed to Fel energy for thousands of years, would have features signaling demonic exposure.
    And this is why I always felt the night elves accepting the Highbourne was shit lore. I mean seriously now, they accepted mages who are showing them that their former idea of mages (arcane is bad and corrupts) is true since these mages sucked magic off demons and killed many of their own when they couldn't sustain everyone anymore.

  11. #171
    Scarab Lord Maxilian's Avatar
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    I will go with:

    Gnome Hunter
    Night Elf Paladin
    Worgen Monk
    Goblin Monk
    Tauren Mage

  12. #172
    Night Elf Shaman and Human Shaman? What?
    Journalism & PR-Student, Media enthusiast.

    People will always complain. Even when you change the thing they're complaining about, they'll start to complain how everything was better before the change.

  13. #173
    Undead Paladin indeed.

  14. #174
    I think that the ones already existing are fine as is.

    If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars.
    Tenkuu Seratonin
    Annegwish

  15. #175
    I am open for some new combos, but I think that Shamans, Paladins and Druids should be left alone. The races that can be these classes fit them so well, and these classes have a very established lore, plus a very firm agenda, that doesn't fit any races really. Strangely though, I find that Dwarves could actually fit as a druid. Not visually, but with the lore. I'm thinking primarily of the Wildhammer clan, who is very much in touch with nature. That is probably the biggest reason they got Shamans back in Cata. It also has to do with them being "of the stone" etc. So maybe druids don't fit as much as I think, but i can't think of any other races representing Druids, besides Pandaren perhaps.

    With Shamans, i feel that the races who can be them are either very spiritual, or very "Hordey." There's not one horde race i can see fitting into Shaman, because there are already so many. When it comes to the Alliance, only night elf COULD come to mind, but honestly, I don't think it would fit.

    As for Paladins, I don't mind the taurens as much as i used to. The sunwalker thing has its own charm, it seperates them from the traditional paladin. I don't think there could be any more palas for Horde. The rest are too much in touch with nature, and not sophisticated enough. Not to say horde races are not sophisticated, but they are all pretty brutish, except for tauren and blood elves. But that is cool as well. As for Alliance, I think gnomes could work. While they are more focused on science, which could hint at them leaning more towards science, versus creationism. But it's not like they are godless or anything, they already have priests. As many have said, their dwarven brothers could teach them. They can also be warrior, combine with priest and some weird gnome pala lore, and it could work. Night elves for pala is a big nono in my book, they are to much in tune with nature, and while being able to be priests, the paladin agenda doesn't exactly fit them.

    When it comes to Warlock, the only races I feel don't fit is tauren and draenei, but even they could be spun in their own way i guess.

    Mage, Warrior, Priest, Hunter and Rogue could be open for anyone, and while Draenei and Tauren wouldn't make as much sense being rogue as the rest of the races, it could be spun in their own way as well. Mage is simply knowledge, intelligence, studying and practicing. Warrior is purely about combat. Hunter is about aiming a bow and commanding a pet. Priest is about being religious towards the light or the darkness.

    Death Knight should open to Pandaren eventually through some way. I know they weren't around when Arthas reigned, but I feel DK's are sort of class they didn't choose, so there's nothing about the racial culture which could stop them. Monks should open to Goblin and Worgen, they just don't want to shit the bed with the starting zone, so they could implement it with them starting with Humans and orcs if they are really lazy.

    That covers my opinions of the races in regards to the classes.

    Sorry for wall of text! Sitting on the train and I have nothing better to do atm, but I have to get off soon, so no time to revise the body.
    Last edited by Erobbity; 2014-02-28 at 06:25 PM.

  16. #176
    Mechagnome Awbee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erobbity View Post
    As for Alliance, I think gnomes could work. While they are more focused on science, which could hint at them leaning more towards science, versus creationism. But it's not like they are godless or anything, they already have priests. As many have said, their dwarven brothers could teach them. They can also be warrior, combine with priest and some weird gnome pala lore, and it could work.
    Yes!

    I would love for gnomes to have more class options, I'm really not even picky as to which ones we'll get. I think Hunter makes the most sense, followed by Paladin and Shaman. Both would be great, and I can see both of them happening. Gnome druids will probably forever remain a dream of mine just imagine the adorableness.


    I generally think gnomes are really underestimated in the lore. They were created by the Titans. They probably lived among the Earthen and helped shape Azeroth. That's why I feel like gnome shamans are not that crazy of an idea. Of course, it would be a different kind of shaman, not exactly the "hordey" or "naturey" type of shamanism.

    Gnomes have a really deep connection to Azeroth itself, the land and the elements -- elements, as in, elemental particles. Electricity. Magnetism. Gravity. Matter itself. The stuff that really holds everything together. I think it could be a fantastic idea to explore. Their totems would look Titan-like and golden, with little clockworks and calibrations and gadgets and they would occasionaly squeak out clouds of white steam.
    Fire totem would measure surrounding temperature.
    Air totem would measure aerodynamic drag or wind strength or both.
    Water totem would measure humidity.
    Earth totem would measure gravitational pull.

    It could be glorious.
    Last edited by Awbee; 2014-02-28 at 07:50 PM.

  17. #177
    Mechagnome joepesci's Avatar
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    Gnome Hunter... disengaging such a small dude across the screen should be fun :-)
    Being the same height as the pet, or even smaller, would also be a refreshing experience, and then, finally, Gnomes could also ride their pets.

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Micromadsen View Post
    You need to go over those numbers again mate. Horde has one more available to them. You only put in 3 Shamans for the Alliance and 4 for the Horde. But there are infact 5 Shamans on the Horde.

    Alliance Shaman: Dwarf, Draenei, Pandaren.

    Horde Shaman: Orc, Tauren, Troll, Goblin and Pandaren.
    Thanks for the heads up.

    In that case, Draenei Warlocks should be introduced. There's no reason not to, sure there entire history is bent on going against it but what of those few Mages who desire to be stronger, but *not* join the Burning Legion? The Council of Black Harvest that's inside Stormwind which shows somewhat of an allegiance and neutrality towards the Alliance shows that there can be a splinter Warlock faction for the Draenei. They might be despised, but there's nothing saying that some Mages might want to become more powerful, and in fact splinter off by themselves and learn the dark arts of Demonology, while not becoming affiliated with the Burning Legion at all.

  19. #179
    Elemental Lord Snowraven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joepesci View Post
    Gnome Hunter... disengaging such a small dude across the screen should be fun :-)
    Being the same height as the pet, or even smaller, would also be a refreshing experience, and then, finally, Gnomes could also ride their pets.
    Gnomes riding their pets, that would be something indeed.

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