1. #1

    Help out our tank: Siegecrafter heroic Shredder

    Dear DK community,

    we recently acquired a new death knight tank who now has issues killing the shredder on Siegecrafter heroic. Since we had no problems doing it with two warriors as well as a warrior and a monk, the problem cannot be the strategy / stacks. But as none of us knows anything about DK tanks, we have no idea what he is doing wrong. I was hoping you could help him out and tell me what he is doing wrong / what he can do better to kill the shredder.

    Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...jaila/advanced

    Because our logs are private, I'll paste a few bits of what he seems to be doing with the shredder:

    Here is a summary of the damage he did to a shredder he was able to kill:
    0. Rune Weapon 4.5 mio
    1. Heart Strike 2.9 mio
    2. Melee 2.8 mio
    3. Death Strike 1.7 mio
    4. Rune Strike 1.6 mio
    5. Soul Reaper 1.3 mio
    6. other 2.5 mio

    Here are the log entries of his actions near Death from Above:

    [21:26:31.918] Xinjaila Heart Strike Automated Shredder 186464
    [21:26:32.454] Xinjaila hits Automated Shredder 180804
    [21:26:32.641] Xinjaila Frost Fever Automated Shredder *51838*
    [21:26:32.757] Xinjaila Death Strike Automated Shredder *807251*
    [21:26:35.068] Xinjaila crits Automated Shredder *343978*
    [21:26:35.603] Xinjaila Frost Fever Automated Shredder 25919
    [21:26:38.357] Automated Shredder gains Death from Above from Automated Shredder
    [21:26:38.620] Xinjaila Frost Fever Automated Shredder 77757
    [21:26:38.762] Automated Shredder afflicted by Death and Decay from Xinjaila
    [21:26:38.762] Xinjaila Death and Decay Automated Shredder 130188
    [21:26:39.477] Automated Shredder gains Overload (3) from Automated Shredder
    [21:26:39.574] Xinjaila Death and Decay Automated Shredder 130187
    [21:26:39.766] Xinjaila crits Automated Shredder *939492*
    [21:26:39.949] Xinjaila Rune Strike Automated Shredder 881436
    [21:26:40.747] Xinjaila Death and Decay Automated Shredder 119464
    [21:26:41.571] Xinjaila Sould Reaper Automated Shredder *1264449*
    [21:26:41.571] Xinjaila Death and Decay Automated Shredder 119464
    [21:26:41.637] Xinjaila Frost Fever Automated Shredder 77758
    [21:26:42.336] Xinjaila Heart Strike Automated Shredder 578212
    [21:26:42.772] Xinjaila Death and Decay Automated Shredder *238928*
    [21:26:43.064] Xinjaila hits Automated Shredder 508327
    [21:26:43.358] Automated Shredder's Death from Above fades from Automated Shredder
    [21:26:43.587] Xinjaila Heart Strike Automated Shredder 520511
    [21:26:43.587] Xinjaila Death and Decay Automated Shredder *79643*
    [21:26:44.412] Xinjaila Heart Strike Automated Shredder *410737*
    [21:26:44.630] Xinjaila Frost Fever Automated Shredder 25919
    [21:26:44.770] Xinjaila Death and Decay Automated Shredder 44966
    [21:26:45.565] Xinjaila Heart Strike Automated Shredder 188491
    [21:26:45.628] Xinjaila Death and Decay Automated Shredder 46578
    [21:26:45.628] Xinjaila hits Automated Shredder 174066
    [21:26:46.412] Xinjaila Rune Strike Automated Shredder 307527
    [21:26:46.786] Xinjaila Death and Decay Automated Shredder 46578
    [21:26:47.187] Xinjaila Sould Reaper Automated Shredder 1031291
    [21:26:47.601] Xinjaila Death Strike Automated Shredder *888566*

    Let me know if you need more details. Thanks in advance!

  2. #2
    Thalur,
    After reviewing his armory he should have absolutely no problem melting the shredder. Here are a few recommendations that will make it die guaranteed every time.
    1st- When the shredder spawns and he is moving it to the center have him summon his ghoul.
    2nd- After the shredder lands he *MUST* use Dancing Rune Weapon and make sure he has death strikes ready to go. The vast majority of his damage done will come when the shredder is taking increased damage after landing. I don't see your tank using Death Strike at all during this phase.
    3rd- Use your strength potion when the shredder lands
    4th- I have a 576 ilevel and this step isn't necessary but in case he is still struggling, he can cast army of the dead ~3-5 seconds before the shredder spawns.

    To be honest, just using his dancing rune weapon should solve the problem. I didn't use my strength pot nor army on the shredder because it was dying so quickly.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Just want to emphasize that he should not be casting death and decay or as many heart strikes when the shredder has landed, he must have death strikes and rune strikes ready to roll with dancing rune weapon and its win.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by vtg183 View Post
    Thalur,
    After reviewing his armory he should have absolutely no problem melting the shredder. Here are a few recommendations that will make it die guaranteed every time.
    1st- When the shredder spawns and he is moving it to the center have him summon his ghoul.
    2nd- After the shredder lands he *MUST* use Dancing Rune Weapon and make sure he has death strikes ready to go. The vast majority of his damage done will come when the shredder is taking increased damage after landing. I don't see your tank using Death Strike at all during this phase.
    3rd- Use your strength potion when the shredder lands
    4th- I have a 576 ilevel and this step isn't necessary but in case he is still struggling, he can cast army of the dead ~3-5 seconds before the shredder spawns.

    To be honest, just using his dancing rune weapon should solve the problem. I didn't use my strength pot nor army on the shredder because it was dying so quickly.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Just want to emphasize that he should not be casting death and decay or as many heart strikes when the shredder has landed, he must have death strikes and rune strikes ready to roll with dancing rune weapon and its win.
    To add to Vtg183's post when the first shredder lands make sure to keep your outbreak available.

    So once it lands pop RW > OB > SR > DS > DS and then spam your Rune strikes and SR's until its dead.

    Doing it this way means you will have 2 Soul Reaper's and 4 dots ticking at the same time once it lands.

    If he is still having trouble then he should consider using the blood 4 set for the 2 free Death strikes ( that is of course if he has a 4th tier peice available)
    Last edited by Chris743; 2014-02-24 at 04:12 PM.

  4. #4
    Is he not using sawblades to help kill it? They do assloads of damage.

  5. #5
    High Overlord Auk's Avatar
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    It's hard to tell without actually seeing the logs, but a few things he should be doing during DFA: pre-casting Death and Decay, DRW, SR, Outbreak and two Death Strikes. If he still can't kill them with all of that then he's going to have to save a pot or be better with placing them in sawblades and fires.

    How many stacks is he usually tanking adds at? I never had any issue killing them with just 3, no pot or army used.

  6. #6
    Tank it on top of a blade, but be sure you pull it so its back is in the blade (it will back up when death from above happens, making it out of range otherwise)

    So make sure your DRW is not glyphed. Make sure you have a parry/dodge heavy build (lots of riposte). Have a druid drop an armor debuff on it.
    I open with my Outbreak, DRW, use a rune strike or two and then Icy Touch and Plague Strike, this puts double diseases on it, and keeps you from staying RP capped. DND, DS/HS only enough to get more RP. just as his death from above starts do a Soul Reaper, As he lands Hit him with it again. You will get thrown up in the air. have a Death Coil / Death Siphon Macro. Spam the crap out of it while you are in the air. When you land he will be dead or almost dead.

    On the second Shredder DRW will still be down, This is a time to use your pet and a potion. Use this opportinity, DRW will come up just in time for him to start his Death From above, Soul Reaper x2 with DRW out, and hit him again for 2 more when he lands. again unload with the DC/DSiphon macron from the air. Use Liberal use of AMS during this phase, there will be lots of fire. again Rune Strike as often as humanly possible stopping only to AMS/ or Generate more RP with DS or HS.

    The third add, you will need to army on. You may have a really hard time finding a blade this time. If both tanks are crazy good, you can stack the add on the boss and unload on it. But its hard to do. Better to stay away, and do your best. You might need a cooldown, if its close. With 5-6 stacks though, it should die very quickly.

    Then you reset the fight and start over.

    I would suggest the DPS cloak as well, and less mastery. Also dont use Rooks talisman, Better to use Thoks tail tip or maybe Skeer's Talisman. You will be very suprised by Death Siphon, with 150k vengeance, you will be critting for 1.6-1.8mil ... its pretty impressive to watch it melt from the air. Whoa, I also just noticed you are 3 Piecing it. The 4 piece is pretty crazy... I couldn't imagine life without it. Man you must be strapped for runes with no haste, and no 4 piece.
    Last edited by Concequence; 2014-02-24 at 09:06 PM.
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  7. #7
    As above said. Or you could change the stacks both tanks take if he still fails to kill it in time.

    1-2 on warrior/monk -> kills shredder
    1-2 on dk
    3 on warrior/monk -> kills shredder
    3-6 on dk -> kills shredder

    Rinse and repeat. He shouldn't have any issues at all with killing it at 6 stacks.

  8. #8
    Field Marshal
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    Too much heart strike, big loss of survivability and dps.
    I think he's wasting his blood tap death runes on heart strikes, I can't be sure because logs are private.
    Tell him to try runic corruption if he can't use blood tap properly.

    I found this, I hope it's bugged, does his dps look like this in heroic ?
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/4.../?s=890&e=1112
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/4...?s=2498&e=2666

  9. #9
    Your tank is prioritizing Heart Strike as his main damaging ability, which has great damage per rune number (with two diseases on the target), and that may be the logic he is using to determine his actions here. However, he only has one disease up on the target, which significantly reduces the efficacy of Heart Strike. That is issue number one.

    Issue two is that since shredders take significantly greater damage during the Death from Above debuff, he needs to be using the abilities that cause the most burst damage, not the most damage per rune. Therefore, as said above, Death Strike and Soul Reaper are the way to go. With both diseases up on the target at all times, of course.

  10. #10
    First off - stop being silly, make the logs public. The only reason anyone ever keeps them secret are because they don't want other guilds to steal their tactics during the progress race, or because you're afraid that your members will take the logs and apply to other guilds with them. There's no reason to make it harder to ask for advice than it needs to be.

    Second, as has been pointed out, he needs to have all preperations "Out of the way" before DFA - DnD needs to be down and ticking, both diseases has to be up, and he needs to have 2x DS's + 4 set to get 2x DS more ready for max burst on the shredder. DS is by far the best burst (after soulreaper, which he needs to apply before the shredder leaps to hit as it's a 6 second debuff), followed by rune strike.

    In any case, you shouldn't exactly expect a DK to kill off the shredder as easily as a warrior, no matter how geared he might be. Warriors are the most OP thing for shredders since Monk's on Ra Den, really. They get more hits during the DFA (due to being able to charge in instantly after it lands, rather than running back in), and they have Dragon Roar which is designed to be a single, critical, strong hit on a *LONG* cd.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    In any case, you shouldn't exactly expect a DK to kill off the shredder as easily as a warrior, no matter how geared he might be. Warriors are the most OP thing for shredders since Monk's on Ra Den, really. They get more hits during the DFA (due to being able to charge in instantly after it lands, rather than running back in), and they have Dragon Roar which is designed to be a single, critical, strong hit on a *LONG* cd.
    Storm Bolt, Charge, Shield Slam/HS, Dead. Use DR on the mines lol. So easy as a warrior

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Khorm View Post
    Storm Bolt, Charge, Shield Slam/HS, Dead. Use DR on the mines lol. So easy as a warrior
    Well, when I tank in our alt run, the warrior tank never really tank during mines (it's basicly only one wave he's tanking the boss, apart from that we're just cycling buffs), so wouldn't know about DR on mines .

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Concequence View Post
    Man you must be strapped for runes with no haste, and no 4 piece.
    Wat.

    DKs stopped caring about getting Haste since 5.4.

  14. #14
    Thanks for all the tips guys. I guess the main problem is not using Death Strike during the 5 seconds with debuff.

    Unfortunately our raid leader decided to kill the boss with another tank last week, so we couldn't try out the tips. Will do this week, hopefully.

    Thanks again!

  15. #15
    Blademaster yinne's Avatar
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    Stop heart striking. Really.

  16. #16
    As far as your Dk goes he's pretty bad for not having blood plague up and for not using death strikes in the 500% damage window. However, to make it easier for yourselves, why not just tank the thing in melee and have both tanks kill it? You mentioned that the other tank is a warrior which can easily kill the 1st shredder alone with 3 stacks, then after that you can just kill all of them together.
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