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  1. #1
    Field Marshal Palapop's Avatar
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    Idea to fix pvp. (my copied thread from wow.eu forums)

    original thread: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...82165?page=1#0

    Hey folks. I'm making this thread hoping for some blue answers and that people could give more suggestions how to fix pvp.
    I'll just give example about every class (or spec if it's too op or not.)
    Overall- pvp is bursty today, everyone have "1 shot macro" and theres just way too many CC's up in game.
    So.... Let's see 1 example vs warr:
    wanna cast? np, pummel. again? np, stunn. again? np, charge. again? np, silence. again? np, recharge. again? np, you're dead....

    so, for example about warrs: blizz should really remove silence and shockwave from arms/fury warrs.,
    and make bladestorm disarm"able" again.... that would make it nice counter.
    nerf their dot dmg
    nerf second wind heal for ~25%

    druids: heart of the wild MUST BE REMOVED! It's just wrong spell.... druid with detterence/ice block is hell enough from simbiozis... we really don't need druid to go instant full tank with HotW or go full healer or crit for 150k+ as cat hotw....
    also, fear as resto druid is a bit stupid, but ok, leave them with at least 1 cc next to cyclone (tho imo I would remove even that)

    rogue: remove leech/stun poisons.... it's just stupid and useless... also, shuriken toss could use dmg nerf.... having it to keep someone in combat or dmg while rooted/slowed is completly enough. no need to kill someone with it tbh.

    lock: pet 90%+ time cc? it needs HUGE nerf! other then that they are "fine" could be hard sometimes to kill, but that's more skill dependent tbh... their dmg is fine.

    mage: buff frostbolt dmg, nerf fingers of frost = caster mage again, less bursty gameplay and higher dmg from actual casts...
    also, remove deep freeze from fire/arc.
    make PoM arcane only.

    priests: I'd just "put back" holy nova.
    remove that holy priest instant cc (dunno it's right name tbh), it's circle of something.... (it's just a bit annoying to have MC > fear > holy something...)
    remove vanish!!!! they are PRIESTS GODDAMMIT!

    hunter: o boy too much to talk about it....
    remove double deterence.
    put back readiness to MM only.
    bring back old "trap launcher" where you could use it once in X seconds. that way you can avoid almost guarantee scatter-trap (unless you have good warr in grp)
    remove exp trap knock!!!!!!!

    shaman: enhancement? lol jk dead.
    can't speak too much about it tbh since I never played enha, just on low lvl....
    but, nerf burst, make enha have more stable dmg, but less that burst....
    enha healing is a bit op too, but if you have enough of brain you'll stop it.
    ele- put some "punishment" for dispeling flame shock dot, pls. like increased haste (pre MoP)
    and remove capacitor totem , it's just useless.

    dead knights: are you seriously buffing UH dk's even more?! ( http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...age=9#comments )
    they do TONS of dmg in BLOOD presence.
    if anyone cries about not being able to do some dmg as DK, then he should really l2p. I crit 150k+ on my 505 frost dk (doing even more dps as UH, but I don't enjoy it at all)
    also, remove their "quatro trinket" - trinket-lichborne-icebound-desecrated ground. removing desecrated is enough.

    palas: (my main) remove retarded HP system.
    remove moronic burst with wings and HA and HoW spamming!
    remove FEAR!!!!
    put repentance instant cast (ret's/prot) (still cast time for holy)
    (so actually you have to choose from between 30 sec stun or 60 sec + rep)
    remove useless "blind" with 2min cd. lol.
    buff ret CS and judgement dmg (once you remove moronic HoW spaming)
    make HoF removing 1 stun effect (this effect can't occur more then once every 60 secs, usable only on paladin)
    make prot viable in pvp, PLS. I'm playing pala for 9+ years, and I'd really like to try prot in pvp, but it's just useless without old holy shield (if you get banged by melees).

    that's pretty much it. if you notice all the burst is nerfed here and all the cc's are split among specs class or removed.
    tell me your oppinion about it pls and feel free to add new ideas.

    I didn't put monks there since I have never played any monk so far. but maybe I'd just nerf "fistweaver" dps....

  2. #2
    This is a really bad list of things to change. But good effort.

  3. #3
    I don't have time to address all your proposed changes, but will comment on the CCs.

    I agree there are too many CCs in the game right now. I'm not the game design expert, or an expert arena player, but what I would like to see is a consolidation of CC classes with faster diminishing returns. You shouldn't be able to use the same class of CC 3 times in a row (i.e. Sheep/Cyclone 8 seconds, sheep/cyclone 4 seconds, sheep/cyclone 1 second etc). Diminishing returns should be full duration, 1/3 duration, followed by immune for 30 seconds.

    I'd like to see fewer categories of CC - do we really need different types of fear?

  4. #4
    Brewmaster Caninese's Avatar
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    I'd trade double deterrence for a healing ability. Honestly, anyone who can self-heal can pretty much beat a hunter.

  5. #5
    I actually think this is a real good idea! Would love to see it happen.

  6. #6
    I only looked at the classes I play because I don't want to say anything about classes I'm unfamiliar with, but I totally agree that ele shaman should have some sort of buff when flame shock is removed. I know ele shaman have been pretty good this expansion, but when flame shock is dispelled it really really really neuters damage output. And the worst part is that it's reasonably difficult to keep flame shock up compared to other classes' dots. I mean it's on a 6 second cooldown, but the fact that it shares a CD with Frost Shock makes it difficult seeing as I'm almost always using Frost shock and frozen power defensively. At the moment we can choose between having good damage and getting pummeled because of our lack of defensives or we can have crap damage and instead try and use our shocks defensively. It's kind of just a PITA atm. I'm also not a huge fan of capacitator totem. I think it's a waste of a spell and I hope it gets the axe when they prune abilities in WOD

    They also need to make drastic changes to spriests. They were good at the start of MoP but they nerfed them way too hard. I still find it ridiculous that a spriest can't use their level 87 ability in arena. THat's just a slap in the face and lazy design IMO. They could have done any number of things to nerf it like add a cast time, or lower the amount that it 'heals', but instead they took the easy way out and just said "nope, not allowed".
    Last edited by blaqkmagick; 2014-01-27 at 07:21 PM.

  7. #7
    so, for example about warrs: blizz should really remove silence and shockwave from arms/fury warrs.,
    and make bladestorm disarm"able" again.... that would make it nice counter.
    nerf their dot dmg
    nerf second wind heal for ~25%
    I most fully agree with what you said, but however they should just redesign 2nd wind and make it like it used to (the whole MOP thing was a stupid idea to begin with). CC in general will be toned down, but hopefully there is compensation for removal on shockwave.

    make prot viable in pvp
    That will never happen, tanking roles never even belonged in the pvp system to begin with, but ill be honest that i missed playing WOTLK prot warrior, or a prot pally in cata, and blood dk when vengeance existed (man those 112k death strikes), so ill agree with this statement.
    Last edited by Beefkow; 2014-01-27 at 09:07 PM.

  8. #8
    Field Marshal Mohyoto's Avatar
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    this suggestions made me lol :P
    hunter: o boy too much to talk about it....
    remove double deterence.
    put back readiness to MM only. and give back double det to the most OP spec???
    bring back old "trap launcher" where you could use it once in X seconds. that way you can avoid almost guarantee scatter-trap (unless you have good warr in grp)
    remove exp trap knock!!!!!!! any good hunter will trap off teammates cc, roots, etc, scatter is used as additional cc not to land traps, at least past 1800raiting, and trust me its very easy to avoid warriors eating the trap that way...as for explosive trap it needs to be glyphed to actual knock people off and to use it properly requires a certain level of skill.
    cheers


    PS as for second its funny how people complain about a skill which gives 8k hp per second, really is it that OP that needs to be nerfed?? Even in 2s with all the burs it is complete shit now

  9. #9
    Field Marshal Palapop's Avatar
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    rediness back to MM would STILL keep the double deterence, idd, but it would be only for MM.
    and, that wouldn't be such a problem if they would remove retarded hunter melee-range nuke. then their DMG would be completly fine (imo)
    you stand away or in los of hunter= you get killed.
    you tunnel hunter= you survive and kill him. gg. (he can still run away with frost trap, freezing trap, disengage)
    as of trap launcher- I still think it's bad and it should be nerfed back as it was.
    as of explosive trap knock- it's just stupid. it should be aoe dmg spell, not pvp knock off sh!t.
    and it's just stupid to have 1 more knock in game. having elemental thunderstorm was completly fine. (and druid typhoon (which should be boomkin only imo) is "fine" as well). but hunters can have knock from powerful shot as well....
    what's next? rogues with knock? dk's with heroism? (since from shaman-only, the heroism has become shaman-mage-hunter spell. RETARDED!)
    overall, I'm just trying to remove "homogenisation" of classes in pvp... everyone have interuppt/stun/fear/knock/silence/self-heal....
    add: hunter's with spell reflect? seems legit to me..... NOT!

    (what 8k hps spell you talk about?)

  10. #10
    Field Marshal Mohyoto's Avatar
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    I don't mind min range brought tbh, I never stay in mele range anyway, hunters need to kite more than ever nowadays to survive a mele, so no clue what the big deal about this is.

    As for explosive trap, the way the spell work is very different compared to thunderstorm and typhoon. Its easily avoided as you can see where the trap lands, needs to be glyphed to actually knock back and to required high skill cap to knock back people the way you want them to.

    I was talking about second wind.

    And giving readiness back to mm wont make any difference as almost all hunters play mm currently.

  11. #11
    Just gonna go through your class ideas..

    Warriors - No to all your ideas except the lower of DoT damage. Arms has always had a stun just about, and they don't have a silence now... And if Bladestorm was disarmable it would be 100% useless. It used to be disarmable, how many people used it? 0. Alright then.

    Druids - I'll agree Heart is kind of odd, but I don't think it's bad. It's only really usable once a match because of its CD, and it adds a lot of versatility to all the specs. Symbiosis is kind of gimmicky though and should definitely be changed/reworked/removed. Also, Resto Druids only have Fear from Symbiosis on a Warrior, which is almost always the worst Symbiosis target because Mages, Shamans, Hunters, etc. are all almost always better.

    Rogue - Stun poison should probably be removed, I agree with that. Nerfing shuriken toss damage? What? Does anyone even ever use that talent, it's trash compared to other options.

    Lock - No idea what you even mean. Their pet is CCd or it CCs you? No clue, Locks are actually in almost the perfect spot right now, though Chaos Bolt is a tad bit much.

    Mage - I agree with the Frostbolt changes, but none of the others. Fire/Arcane having Deep Freeze is fine, and PoM being a talent is fine as well.

    Priests - I'd love for Holy Nova to come back (my main is a Priest, I miss it greatly) but it probably never will. Their Chastise 3sec stun is fine, because it requires them to switch Chakras, which impacts their healing greatly. And Spectral Guise I wouldn't really miss, kind of hilarious though to drop a feather, stealth, and appear on the other side of the map. Comparing it to Vanish is stupid though, because it will never save you from dying against a competent team.

    Hunter - Double deter is fine, they're one of the squishiest classes. Readiness shouldn't exist ever, as we already saw. Something should be done with Hunter CC, but it's hard to say what. Maybe put trap and scatter on the same DR, so you have to trap off Wyvern instead, and you can Scatter something else to add a higher skill cap. I'm really not sure.

    Shaman - Enh is really bursty, but it's so absurdly easy to stop that it hardly matters. They one shot you under 30%, just need to be ready for it. I'd love to see them buff sustained damage while nerfing burst, but I kinda doubt that will happen. Ele doesn't need the same DoT removal that SPriests/Locks have because Flame Shock doesn't have a cast time, which means you can always get it up with no fear of being kicked, plus with the CD on dispel you can keep it up on 2+ people 100% of the time even with 8sec Dispels.

    DKs - Yeah, their damage is stupid high. But far from unmanageable. I'd rather deal with DK damage over Mage damage, even though DKs will do more damage over all. They need something defensive, they just die far too fast right now. I'd say nerf their damage maybe 5%, but give them some sort of defensive not die instantly button.

    Paladin - The only class I don't know much about, so won't really touch on it. Ret needs a miracle before it's viable again though. And please don't make Prot viable, we don't need tanks in PvP, that serves only to make the game worse.

    Monks - WW needs another defensive, and a way to stay on target, they're trash in almost every situation outside of duels/2s. MW I don't really know, seems fine.


    Anyway, yeah, a couple decent ideas but mostly just changes that wouldn't work or aren't needed.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Caninese View Post
    I'd trade double deterrence for a healing ability. Honestly, anyone who can self-heal can pretty much beat a hunter.
    Rogue, feral/boomy, warrior, Spriest.... Do I need to go on?

    On topic though I think it's the amount of instant CC that is out or control. Wyvern into a silencing shot into a scatter or chastise into a fear into a horror, etc. This instant shit is just out of hand.

  13. #13
    The Lightbringer Blitzo's Avatar
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    Only change I think that's needed is when you're feared by any class -- if ANY damage is done it breaks.

    Not this oh you're sitting in a blind with rolling dots? Fuck outta here.

    Same with warlocks/warriors
    “It is either easy or impossible.” - Salvador Dali

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  14. #14
    "enha healing is a bit op too, but if you have enough of brain you'll stop it."

    People like you shouldn't have right to post threads
    Time is on our side
    Brutal Gladiator Enhancement Shaman *rawr*

  15. #15
    No. Most of these changes would suck and a lot are unnecessary, are you even playing WoW at the moment?

    "Remove leech poison cause it's stupid..." yeah man, that is definitely a good reason to remove a spell.

  16. #16
    Field Marshal Palapop's Avatar
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    @Darksoldierr- I say that enha heal is op arena wise, but when 1v1 you can remove it np.
    @Fix- yes, I do play. and when I say that i's stupid I do think- both for hp leech poison and stun poison. both are really not needed. EVERYONE has some sort of self-heal which should happen at all... rogue can just go vanish and top him in 30-60 secs then reopen with dance/cloak/feint/2(+1)stunns/silence/interuppt/gouge/blind..... gg.
    @Blitzo- I agree with you. way too many fears are in game and they break after you get 10-20% dmg. even with my sacrifice (when I play on paladin) they don't break instantly...

  17. #17
    Symbiosis needs revamp more than druid 90 talents (complete removal in my opinion). Yes druid 90 talents need attention too as they are more of the lackluster choices than other classes. Druids should only have access to bear / cat / moonkin / tree (bring back) if they are specced into (button bloat gone). If they had gone this direction in TBC resto druids would have been a normal class instead of gods in 2's since inception.

    Hunter's need scatter trap (and traps) mechanics removed from the class completely. I don't know why they just wont give freezing arrow to hunters. Explosive shot glyphed could knock back opponents (maybe longer cooldown). Double deterrence can go to. Masters call needs a revamp, and at a cost of there CC being toned down they get a reliable self heal (like warriors 3% @ 35%). I would also remove Wyvern and Binding shot, give all hunters silence shot.

    Warriors have too many tools, and need removal of the entire stun talent tier. No more defense stance for arms/fury. In fact, stances, aspects, seals, are an aged system IMO that should also be removed

    Paladins need another CC, as much as I want to get rid of fear and Blind, they are the worst dps and healer. I'm ok with Blind removal but the fear is needed for chain CC. Removal of a large amount of stuns / interrupts / silences will buff pallies over other classes. Guardian of Kings can go for all I care, buff rets damage to compensate, holy doesnt need another oh shit button and prot's AD can be buffed

  18. #18
    I only agree with frost bolt buff and spec guise removal. For the other stuff you seem amazingly clueless about classes.

  19. #19
    In addition to my recent post, i have to add that frost mages just need to be changed, or maybe even just redone completely!

    Its been the same stupid playstyle since BC, just hurping ice lance all day with guaranteed crits. Talents in general for all classes needs to be fixed completely, lots of choices that don't belong on the talent tree (my god, do something about subterfuge).

    I feel bad for ret pallys, but i've seen successful rets beat 3's comps, and really ret is the only damage spec for pallys so... it kinda sucks that pallys would stick to only 2 specs that AREN'T dps.

    Hunters are retarded right now, with 100k chimeras going off all the time (hits and crits), and really good cc!

    DKs do alot of damage right now as i agree with the OP, but they are just squishy right now and easy to global (blood presence doesn't help), i kinda wish that S5 dks would rise up and just bring back vengeance to the idiots who thinks its funny to global DKS.
    Last edited by Beefkow; 2014-01-28 at 08:29 PM.

  20. #20
    Make Blazing speed (mage talent) a passive one.. have an addon to molten shield that adds some sort of fire damage to the character attacking the mage.. Change Alter time so that after used/activated cc can't be implemented on the mage.. Also if spellsteal is going to cost that much mana have the abilities that it can steal be permanent until the mage dies.

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