You are trying to antagonize me, you know you are, but are now feigning innocence to try and come off as the better person.
You then, again, decide to say my assumptions are erroneous when you’re the only person making assumptions. I’m simply sticking to what we know – you can either accept that, or you can’t.
You have yet to prove you know anything that I don’t. That’s why you’re arrogant and patronizing, because you’re implying you know more about the subject than I do but have yet to prove this to be so. Let’s look at a few examples.
See, this is an example of antagonism. You know I dislike you starting every sentence or paragraph with “you don’t seem to be getting this”, so what do you do? Start your paragraphs with “you don’t seem to be getting this”. But you’re not trying to upset anyone. I think “lolz” fits in just fine, don’t you?
But let’s go with what you’ve stated here.
You are assuming that what they’ve stated is going to happen will, in fact, happen.
Would you like me to recount all of the times when Blizzard have said something and then not delivered? I can if you like. But you’d have to be very, very naïve to think they’re suddenly going to keep every promise. What YOU don’t get is that I know, full well, what’s been stated – I’m simply choosing to wait and see if they deliver, given their history. “It’s this or a raid tier” has become a bit of a joke around the WoW community recently, but I fully expect it to continue into Warlords of Draenor. The reason I’m asking you to quote sources isn’t because I’ve not read what you’ve read, it’s because you seem to have interpreted it differently. And because you flatly refuse to link anything that contradicts what I’ve said (nope, not a single time) then I can only assume that’s where this all falls down.
You’re making assumptions off of information, but passing it off as factual, when I’m not. There’s no “misunderstanding”, merely a bit more gullibility on your part.
Ah, you’ve been rumbled so it’s words in the mouth time. I’ve never once said that the removal of valor points should only be viewed in the context of MoP, I’ve only said I’m worried that they will be. Once again, the only person missing something here is actually yourself because you’re making bland assumptions on what I’m saying rather than reading what I’m choosing to post. You are saying that 6.0 gearing will be far more open to casuals, but you have no idea whether or not that’s true. Not. A. Clue. You know what? Neither do I. I know exactly where drops come from, but what we don’t know is how strong they’re going to be.
Let’s make this really, really simple so that you can’t misconstrue me again. Let’s say for argument’s sake this is how it’ll shake out (fictitious numbers):
Normal dungeon: item level 100.
Heroic scenarios: item level 110.
Heroic dungeon: item level 120.
Challenge mode/LFR: item level 130
Normal mode: item level 140.
Heroic mode: item level 150.
Mythic mode: item level 160.
I’d be shocked if garrison items were as good as LFR, but they’ll certainly be no better. At this point, you don’t know if this is correct or not; neither do I. You’re stating certain things as fact, but have yet to cite a source confirming that so I’ll assume there isn’t one. If you’re talking about the gearing path Hazzikostas recently mentioned (heroic dungeons take you to normal raids), that says nothing about item level and is more likely to be a reference to the current flex mode being in the next expansion from the start. If you want to disagree, I want a source.
Now, this is where you and I are dovetailing (except I understand that, and you don’t).
We don’t know what’s going to happen with these scenarios, dungeons, challenge modes and garrisons as the expansion moves on. As soon as someone has geared through LFR, their personal development on that character may have stopped because all content before it ceases to become a path to gearing, other than the pure RNG hope for tertiary stats (tertiary stats you actually want) or a gem slot. When the next tier of content is released, let’s say at item level 170 for its LFR version and rising 10 points per mode, then we have to start making assumptions on how that’s going to be handled.
1) Do we know that there will be more dungeons? No. All Hazzikostas said at BlizzCon was that they’d “try to do more of that”. Key word: try. If you think otherwise, source.
2) Do we know what item level these dungeons will be? No.
3) Do we know that there will be more scenarios? No. Next to no commentary has been made on them, but I’d imagine it’s likely we’ll see them. They’re cheap and easy.
4) Do we know what item level these scenarios will be? No.
5) Do we know if garrison items will be updated? No. Very little has been said on gear gathering from your garrison followers.
6) Do we know what item level garrison gear would be? No.
In short, unless you can cite me sources for each question where I’m wrong, all you’re doing is speculating, passing it off as fact, and telling me I don’t get it.
So we’re left with a player who could potentially start the expansion having a ball, getting his gear from all sorts of sources and then blasting his way through LFR to a shiny weapon and his four-piece. This is great! At this point, his item level is going to be at an average of around 130 and he might be content farming the piss out of what he’s already done in order to get more gems or tertiary stats. History, of course, says that he won’t because RNG gearing causes more frustration than enjoyment under this auspice. His next choice, if he wants his character to develop, is to raid… And that’s it. He’s not going to gain item level from anywhere else because there are no more valor items or upgrades, but he may pick up a few crafted pieces or BoE’s from the auction house.
He’s done.
Next tier, we know we’ll get a raid tier because that’s what Hazzikostas wants to develop. We also know… Well, nothing. We don’t know if we’ll get more dungeons, because all they’ve said to my knowledge is that they’ll “try” to do them. It’s likely we’ll get scenarios, for reasons already stated, but their gear delivery system is pretty lousy in the main; triple-random rewarding doesn’t sound that fabulous to me (first, do I get something? Second, can I use it? Third, does it have the tertiary I want?). In neither case do we know what item level these dungeons or scenarios will deliver, but I’d wager they’ll be less than LFR assuming dungeons would have challenge modes that reward LFR items. Will garrison gear be upgraded? Dunno.
And with no valor points, players will have no way of protecting against having to raid in order to develop beyond LFR gearing… Exactly as now.
So you see, there’s no “misunderstanding”. You’re just choosing to swallow what you’re being told and making blind assumptions on what that all means, and I’m not.
Again, if you want to disagree, I’ll ignore what you say without a valid and specific source.
Prove me wrong.
I like your use of the word “know”. Nothing you’ve stated outside the obvious is actually “known”, but I do like your assertions to the contrary.
Anyway, I’d like some sources:
1) You say all of those activities reward epic gear, but I’d like to know their item levels. This should be easy, you’re saying you “know”.
2) You say all of that content gives comparable rewards in terms of item level, but not what they’re comparable to; each other? This should be easy, you’re saying you “know”.
3) You say nobody will be left behind, but without knowing item levels that’s a guess. This should be easy, you’re saying you “know”.
Just a couple of points here, actually. I think cosmetic things such as pets and mounts, and particularly transmogrifiable items, would be very cool as rewards for playing the game how you like and using a currency. It’s not happened so extensively yet, but as I clearly stated earlier, that doesn’t mean it couldn’t happen. As for “I need x amount of valor”, this isn’t traditionally how people have used the system; they’ve usually gotten what they want, then turned in the excess – I see no reason why that wouldn’t change.
Lolz.
Since when did “intentions, plans and design philosophy” become facts? That’s what you’re presenting them as.
Source, please.
No, you’re assuming. Sorry. You’re assuming they’re going to do what they’ve said they will (because Blizzard ALWAYS do what they promise…) and then passed off your interpretation of statements as the only interpretation. Again, to prove me wrong, you’re going to have to cite your sources.
An assertion based on…?
That wasn’t the case on the Isle of Thunder, when running around in 496 gear would still see you reasonably challenged; particularly when fighting rares or doing the solo-scenarios. That’s the type of development I’d like to see, while I also see nothing wrong with quickly killing mobs in the pre-tier world when you’re trying to do other things like exploration, rare hunting, professions, achievement chasing etc.
Basically, I’m not an elitist who thinks only raiders should have nice gear.
There you go again. I didn’t “conveniently ignore” anything. Blizzard have admitted that scenarios and challenge modes didn’t scratch many itches, and they’re not demanding to make; they use existing art and are simply populated with mobs (scenarios) or tuned up (challenge modes). His point at BlizzCon was very clear; he had heard the community say they wanted more dungeons, but delivered less. Don’t try and obfuscate the point by dragging it elsewhere. It doesn’t wash.
Let’s be honest, you’ve not managed to prove a single assertion you’ve made yet and have either misunderstood or grossly misrepresented my concerns while behaving like a smug, know-it-all throughout.
You and Hazzikostas would make great bedfellows.
Your next post needs sources, or needs to be forgotten about.
Your call.
I couldn't have said it better myself.