1. #20021
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    Putinists calling others nazis is fucking funny.
    Americans pretending they're not as bad as Putin is fucking funny.

    That being said, both are bad.

  2. #20022
    The Unstoppable Force Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pateuvasiliu View Post
    Americans pretending they're not as bad as Putin is fucking funny.
    Yeah, America is just like Russia. You must be ignorant to every single metric that we linked earlier.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    I wouldn't expect someone who thinks science provides proof to know that.

  3. #20023
    Quote Originally Posted by pateuvasiliu View Post
    Americans pretending they're not as bad as Putin is fucking funny.

    That being said, both are bad.
    Americans are not as bad as Putin.
    Proud European, engineer and asshole.


  4. #20024
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberowl View Post
    Nobody forced the Euro on them, they decided to replace their currency with the Euro and made it an European crisis, when their faked finances couldn't survive the hit from the US.
    http://www.bbc.com/news/business-16290598
    So what really caused the crisis?There was a big build-up of debts in Spain and Italy before 2008, but it had nothing to do with governments. Instead it was the private sector - companies and mortgage borrowers - who were taking out loans. Interest rates had fallen to unprecedented lows in southern European countries when they joined the euro. And that encouraged a debt-fuelled boom.

    Good news for Germany...All that debt helped finance more and more imports by Spain, Italy and even France. Meanwhile, Germany became an export power-house after the eurozone was set up in 1999, selling far more to the rest of the world (including southern Europeans) than it was buying as imports. That meant Germany was earning a lot of surplus cash on its exports. And guess what - most of that cash ended up being lent to southern Europe.

    ...bad news for southern EuropeBut debts are only part of the problem in Italy and Spain. During the boom years, wages rose and rose in the south (and in France). But German unions agreed to hold their wages steady. So Italian and Spanish workers now face a huge competitive price disadvantage. Indeed, this loss of competitiveness is the main reason why southern Europeans have been finding it so much harder to export than Germany.
    The Euro was flawed from the start. It created a self inflating bubble that bursted in 2008. Germany is as much to blame as Spain and Italy, but only the south had to pay the price.

  5. #20025
    That's nothing new, there is a nice series about it from BBC Television (so not really biased). Conclusion was that the northern EU countries profited more from the EU than the southern ones. Especially Germany is profiting most. Will try to find the BBC series about it.

  6. #20026
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    http://www.bbc.com/news/business-16290598


    The Euro was flawed from the start. It created a self inflating bubble that bursted in 2008. Germany is as much to blame as Spain and Italy, but only the south had to pay the price.
    Each country carries their own package and Spain and Italy have a huge package after centuries of bad political and economical decisions.
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    It gets kinda boring after the millionth time, just like discussions on declawing cats, waiters wages in the USA, and anything Cybran has ever said.

  7. #20027
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberowl View Post
    Each country carries their own package and Spain and Italy have a huge package after centuries of bad political and economical decisions.
    Without the Euro they would have been able to deflate their currency and increase barrowing costs, but instead Germany forced them through painful Austerity that crippled their economies.

    This has nothing to do with "centuries of bad decissions".

  8. #20028
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    Without the Euro they would have been able to deflate their currency and increase barrowing costs, but instead Germany forced them through painful Austerity that crippled their economies.

    This has nothing to do with "centuries of bad decissions".
    They adapted the Euro, bad decision.
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    It gets kinda boring after the millionth time, just like discussions on declawing cats, waiters wages in the USA, and anything Cybran has ever said.

  9. #20029
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    The Euro was flawed from the start. It created a self inflating bubble that bursted in 2008. Germany is as much to blame as Spain and Italy, but only the south had to pay the price.
    Again:
    ...bad news for southern EuropeBut debts are only part of the problem in Italy and Spain. During the boom years, wages rose and rose in the south (and in France). But German unions agreed to hold their wages steady. So Italian and Spanish workers now face a huge competitive price disadvantage. Indeed, this loss of competitiveness is the main reason why southern Europeans have been finding it so much harder to export than Germany.
    Bad economic policies on southern Europe's part... and it hasn't even anything to do with the euro, the southern economies would've slided into a crisis anyhow. Not just because of poor economic policies, but because of the 2008 crisis. German's lendings has made the impact of those poor economic decisions less hurtful.
    Proud European, engineer and asshole.


  10. #20030
    Quote Originally Posted by Trollskalden View Post
    Americans are not as bad as Putin.
    Did Putin or anyone from his government already got children on board of some Crimea/Donbass enterprise?

  11. #20031
    The Unstoppable Force Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Did Putin or anyone from his government already got children on board of some Crimea/Donbass enterprise?
    No he and his government merely control firms that make up over 50% of total GDP.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    I wouldn't expect someone who thinks science provides proof to know that.

  12. #20032
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    No he and his government merely control firms that make up over 50% of total GDP.
    Well, clearly Americans love nepotism and hate government control; and we prefer it the other way around.

  13. #20033
    Quote Originally Posted by Trollskalden View Post
    German's lendings has made the impact of those poor economic decisions less hurtful.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/23/up...isis.html?_r=0

    Which brings us back to the euro zone crisis. People (especially Germans) often view the crisis, which first became severe four years ago this spring, through this frame: Profligate, free-spending nations along Europe’s southern coast (we’re looking at you, Greece, Italy and Spain) borrowed more money than they could possibly repay; then, when the bill came due, they nearly caused the collapse of the common euro currency before being bailed out by their more responsible Northern European neighbors.

    The run-up in debt in Spain and Greece and Italy was the flip side of Germany’s success in containing workers’ wages and improving exports. Germany sold more stuff to Southern Europe than it bought. It took the profits and, in effect, lent the money back to those same Southern European countries. In Greece and Italy, it showed up as government borrowing, and in Spain as a housing bubble fueled by bank loans.

    It all fell apart once the indebtedness of the Southern European countries became too much to bear. Because all these countries use the same currency, the euro, none could relieve the pressure by devaluing their currency as they might have with their own lira, drachma or peseta.

    Europe has been forced to fix its internal imbalances some other way. The approach so far has largely been one of forcing steep cuts in wages and benefits on the Southern European countries, so that they can regain competitiveness against Germany.
    How come you manage to read the same thing as everyone else and come to a wrong conclusion? The EURO is the root cause of the crisis. The way it works is turning the South into a periphery that has to rely on the North for it's survival and economic decissions.

    The Euro is broken and Italy is right to consider ditching it.

  14. #20034
    The Unstoppable Force Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Well, clearly Americans love nepotism and hate government control; and we prefer it the other way around.
    Yes we're well aware that Russia likes repeating its mistakes.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    How come you manage to read the same thing as everyone else and come to a wrong conclusion?
    This is begging for a sig.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    The Euro is broken and Italy is right to consider ditching it.
    If they want to rot due to their own destructive economic practices, let them.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    I wouldn't expect someone who thinks science provides proof to know that.

  15. #20035
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/23/up...isis.html?_r=0


    How come you manage to read the same thing as everyone else and come to a wrong conclusion? The EURO is the root cause of the crisis. The way it works is turning the South into a periphery that has to rely on the North for it's survival and economic decissions.

    The Euro is broken and Italy is right to consider ditching it.
    The Euro is not the root of the problem, shitty economy is. The Euro could have been a part-solution, but since it is an international currency and not a national currency, they can't decide to blow up the Euro on their own.
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    It gets kinda boring after the millionth time, just like discussions on declawing cats, waiters wages in the USA, and anything Cybran has ever said.

  16. #20036
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    The EURO is the root cause of the crisis. The way it works is turning the South into a periphery that has to rely on the North for it's survival and economic decissions.
    There are many reasons why the eurocrisis happened, both due to poor handling of southern European economies but also because of the 2008 crisis. Has the handling of the euro problematized the situation? Yes. But the currency itself is not the root of the problem, that's just anti-globalization drivel.
    Proud European, engineer and asshole.


  17. #20037
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberowl View Post
    The Euro is not the root of the problem, shitty economy is. The Euro could have been a part-solution, but since it is an international currency and not a national currency, they can't decide to blow up the Euro on their own.
    They are bound by the rules of the ECB that work for Germany, but don't work for anyone else. Without the Euro they would have been able to adjust much faster and lose far less jobs and GDP.

  18. #20038
    Quote Originally Posted by Daffodily View Post
    Ukraine was trying to be neutral with pro-Russia leanings for 23 years and when choice came, well we know what happened.Look at statistics of Poland and Ukraine in 1991 - Poland chose EU/NATO and where it is now? Example of massive reforms,strong growth and rather good future in all sections of economy and politics.
    Ukraine,Im sorry to say this but at the moment its a failed state.I dont think it has much future,unless you want to become something like Belarus,in integration with Russia.
    Hold your tongue, your country was in worse situation in 1940. At least we have a good chance to win the war you lost, thanks to our size. I suggest you wait 2 months after elections before making judgements.
    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    Ukraine used to be part of USSR (aka Russia). Ukrainians are Russians; just a bit different kind of Russians, still Russians.
    So basically Russians are shooting against other Russians with weapons made in Russia, distributed by Russia, stolen by other Russians who were trained by Russians. Then they shoot down a commercial airplane full of civilians. Who is responsible? USA!

  19. #20039
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    They are bound by the rules of the ECB that work for Germany, but don't work for anyone else. Without the Euro they would have been able to adjust much faster and lose far less jobs and GDP.
    So basically: "Hey central Europe.. I know this may sound bad, but we want to dumb your currency and your savings. It's not your fault, it's ours, but we are sorry! Deal?"

    Do you really wonder why that didn't happen?

    If the solution to economical crisis in Southern Europe is screwing their own currency, they shouldn't have swapped their national currency with the Euro.
    Last edited by Cyberowl; 2014-05-14 at 03:33 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    It gets kinda boring after the millionth time, just like discussions on declawing cats, waiters wages in the USA, and anything Cybran has ever said.

  20. #20040
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberowl View Post
    So basically: "Hey central Europe.. I know this may sound bad, but we want to dumb your currency and your savings. It's not your fault, it's ours, but we are sorry! Deal?"

    Do you really wonder why that didn't happen?
    Why not. Germany was just as much to blame for the bubble as the South. When they lend money to Spain, Italy and Greece they know of the risks, but when it came to fixing the situation Germany used it's position as the largest economy in the ECB to put all the blame and costs on the South instead of paying it's share.

    The crisis showed who actually runs the show.

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