1. #13061
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroesec View Post
    The US Military is not for show. It's for use. You may not understand that because in Russia, when Vladmir Putin rolls the latest in Russian hardware down Red Square what he is actually saying is "This is the Russian state. It is strong. I am the man who made the state strong, and thus Russia. I can protect you." By contrast, when was the last time the US Military put on a parade in the Russian, or hell, even the Bastille Day, style... where we roll a bunch of tanks, combat troops, some ICBMs, a brigade, and stuff like that, down Pennsylvania avenue in Washington DC or Fifth Avenue in New York, for some inane display of military might? When was the last time we've engaged in such an infantile display of state power? I don't think it's ever been done. I think the closest we get is "Welcome home" Parades of unarmed troops on foot that happen in small towns and big cities from time to time and flying the Blue Angels over the Superbowl or something. I imagine if the President of the United States asked for a flyover of 4 B-2s in formation during his inaugural parade, a bunch of Air Force generals would resign in protest and Congress would launch an investigation.

    .
    When did you win a war on nazism to be so proud of your military as to throw parade? And you misunderstand, it's not a parade to demonstrate military might, but a parade in honour of people who gave their lifes for our Motherland.
    Banned.

  2. #13062
    Quote Originally Posted by atsawin26 View Post
    Well, considering the nigh-Godlike abilities of the American military as some posters here seem to think of it, I'm sure the US could go in militarily, clean up the Russian presence in Crimea and eastern Ukraine, make sure the Russians are never in a position to do so again, and head home with minimal casualties, right?

    I mean, it's the giant and the gnat, David and Goliath, right?

    So...why doesn't the US do it and just be done with the situation instead of sniveling internationally and writing angrily-worded letters?
    There's a risk of nuclear war if that happens, not to mention that the EU's economy is dependant on Russia. That's why there hasn't been any major economic sanctions either.
    I'm a European federalist. Now you know.


  3. #13063
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Excuse me? What the fuck were the snipers in Maidan then?

    Inb4:CIA
    http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/05/wo...dio-recording/

    Not to mention (for like 100th time) that trees and bodies of the dead were cutted/buried pretty fast by the new government, despite that Russia and EU demand actual investigation.
    Last edited by OmniSkribe; 2014-04-15 at 10:25 AM.

  4. #13064
    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    The new government will just shoot anyone who disagrees.
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...A3710L20140408

    But the overwhelming majority of some 18,800 service personnel who the Ukrainian defence ministry says stuck out the month-long siege of their bases in Crimea are now ignoring orders - unswayed by purse-strapped Kiev's lacklustre offer to uproot their families and move them to the mainland.
    I am sure they want to, but their soldiers are smarter than that. This is why the junta in Kiev is asking for help from NATO and UN to fight their own citizen. This is why the head of the CIA was in Kiev last Sunday. One can only guess what kind of mess they are planing.
    Last edited by Cybran; 2014-04-15 at 10:25 AM.

  5. #13065
    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    Just wondering, you 'freed' the Balkans from fascists, and installed your own fascists, and think this is something to crow about instead of a mistake that those peoples are rightly angry at you for?
    We were not fascists and "installed" none.
    Plus not only did we free Balkans alone, but I'd say whole world from that scourge.
    Banned.

  6. #13066
    Quote Originally Posted by Skulkgra View Post
    When did you win a war on nazism to be so proud of your military as to throw parade? And you misunderstand, it's not a parade to demonstrate military might, but a parade in honour of people who gave their lifes for our Motherland.
    For most Americans they believe they single handedly won the war while the British and Russians just sat around drinking or bumping into things due to their own incompetence. Don't you know? We'd all be speaking German now if not for America!

    /rollseyes

  7. #13067
    Quote Originally Posted by Skulkgra View Post
    We were not fascists and "installed" none.
    Stalin is most definitely among the biggest fascists in history.
    I'm a European federalist. Now you know.


  8. #13068
    Quote Originally Posted by atsawin26 View Post
    For most Americans they believe they single handedly won the war while the British and Russians just sat around drinking or bumping into things due to their own incompetence. Don't you know? We'd all be speaking German now if not for America!

    /rollseyes
    Ofcourse, because it is typical for western media to downplay the victory of USSR in WWII. From that propaganda, people like Skroesek are born, "proud eagles", no less.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Trollskalden View Post
    Stalin is most definitely among the biggest fascists in history.
    That is propaganda. He was a dictator, he killed many people, but his victims are .. overvictimized, and the number of people died from repressions is greatly overrated, thanks to liars like Solzhenitsyn.
    Banned.

  9. #13069
    Quote Originally Posted by Skulkgra View Post
    That is propaganda. He was a dictator, he killed many people, but his victims are .. overvictimized, and the number of people died from repressions is greatly overrated, thanks to liars like Solzhenitsyn.
    So the people who got executed because they did not agree with the regime are now overvictimized?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by OmniSkribe View Post
    You inability to comprehend history, words and their meaning is astonishing.
    Petty insults from a petty person.
    I'm a European federalist. Now you know.


  10. #13070
    Quote Originally Posted by Skulkgra View Post
    We were not fascists and "installed" none.
    Plus not only did we free Balkans alone, but I'd say whole world from that scourge.
    Wait wait wait. Are you trying to suggest that Stalinism doesn't include a huge dose of fascism? Or that the USSR wasn't an extremely fascist government up until close to the end?
    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    So if the states get together and work with the Legislative Branch to write an amendment to the federal constitution, you think the Judiciary (SCOTUS) could strike it down for being 'unconstitutional'?
    Uh...yes. Absolutely.

  11. #13071
    Quote Originally Posted by OmniSkribe View Post
    http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/05/wo...dio-recording/

    Not to mention (for like 100th time) that trees and bodies of the dead were cutted/buried pretty fast by the new government, despite that Russia and EU demand actual investigation.
    So you have leaked phone call from two people speaking about third person who thinks that the shooters might be connected to the new intern government, and then the first 2 people agreeing that maybe they should investigate it? This is on the same level of proof as lunatics here yelling about CIA and then you quoting them.

    Also please tell me, why the fuck would the new government order killings on people who are supporting them?

  12. #13072
    Elemental Lord Haven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Excuse me? What the fuck were the snipers in Maidan then?
    Provokers. They did their job, raised the hysteria so that the crowd was ready to blame anyone, and instigators made sure the blame lay where it was needed. But this time, it's government officially putting down resistance by lethal force. And they have to hire Greystone for that because local police doesn't want to get their hands this dirty. European idylle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Skulkgra View Post
    When did you win a war on nazism to be so proud of your military as to throw parade? And you misunderstand, it's not a parade to demonstrate military might, but a parade in honour of people who gave their lifes for our Motherland.
    Shh, don't tell him that USSR won WW2 on 9th of May and that we celebrate this day ever since, or we'll get a gazillion pages of posts about how it was actuallly an elite squad of American Nazi-hunters that assassinated Hitler and won the war.
    "A NAME IS A CLOAK OF LETTERS THROWN UPON A MAN. IT MEANS NOTHING." - Transcendent One, Planescape: Torment.

  13. #13073
    Quote Originally Posted by atsawin26 View Post
    Well, considering the nigh-Godlike abilities of the American military as some posters here seem to think of it, I'm sure the US could go in militarily, clean up the Russian presence in Crimea and eastern Ukraine, make sure the Russians are never in a position to do so again, and head home with minimal casualties, right?

    I mean, it's the giant and the gnat, David and Goliath, right?

    So...why doesn't the US do it and just be done with the situation instead of sniveling internationally and writing angrily-worded letters?
    Yes, if the United States wanted to, it could remove Russian military assets from Crimea.

    Why doesn't it?

    Because:

    a) Concerted, targeted sanctions will do far more damage to Moscow than giving them a bloody nose and removing their access to the Black Sea / Crimean Peninsula. Sanctions also don't require you to risk the lives of your soldiers and potentially spark a wider conflict with the world's second nuclear superpower.

    b) Absolutely no-one wants to see a full-scale theater conflict. Not Washington, not Moscow, not Beijing, no-one.

    c) It would be very hard to do. Not impossible, certainly within the capabilities of the US military. But American soldiers would die - probably hundreds, maybe thousands.

    d) Ukraine is not a part of NATO, and the Alliance is under no obligation to defend it.

    So, unless Moscow decides that it wants to go all the way to Kiev, the chances of Uncle Sam pulling on his boxing gloves are slim to non-existent.

  14. #13074
    National Guard brigades do combat tours to Afghanistan and did them for Iraq. The weekend warrior thing went away over a decade ago.
    Killing unarmed civilians or bombing does not count as combat experience. Btw, have you watched the movie Jarhead? it is great!
    Meanwhile let Spetsnaz train on Blackwater.

    If you want to get to know Skroesec better, this is a good sum up of his dogma:http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/20...miscalculated/ No need to comment.

    And for your entertainment: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WzbWXhveaM 30 unarmed civilians and a yellow LADA vs ukrainian T-80. Yes, that is another surrender.

  15. #13075
    Elemental Lord Haven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    So you have leaked phone call from two people speaking about third person who thinks that the shooters might be connected to the new intern government, and then the first 2 people agreeing that maybe they should investigate it? This is on the same level of proof as lunatics here yelling about CIA and then you quoting them.

    Also please tell me, why the fuck would the new government order killings on people who are supporting them?
    What's the lives of a couple of random hamsters worth? The hysteria and provocation are much more meaningful than two additional throats shouting slogans. And it's a good excuse to lay the blame on the opponents.
    "A NAME IS A CLOAK OF LETTERS THROWN UPON A MAN. IT MEANS NOTHING." - Transcendent One, Planescape: Torment.

  16. #13076
    Quote Originally Posted by Trollskalden View Post
    So the people who got executed because they did not agree with the regime are now overvictimized?

    - - - Updated - - -


    Petty insults from a petty person.
    You seem to swap the meanings of "not agreeing with the regime" and "doing everything to undermine it". It was alright not to agree with the regime, and some lived happily not agreeing with it.

    USSR was a multi-national country, all accusations of fascism are laughable.
    Banned.

  17. #13077
    I am Murloc! Skroe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TooMuch View Post
    My Tu-95? Where do you get the idea I am Russian? Proves even more that you just read what you want to read...
    Because it's relevant and important where the fuck your from. You could be from the goddamn Azores and I would authentically not give a crap, or change a word I said. It in no way altars my point where you are from. If you're not Russian... fine whatever. Who cares.

    Quote Originally Posted by TooMuch View Post
    I am opposed to power games if they are being done by any country. Also I am very much in favor of showing more sides than just the one-sided "Russia is bad, US is good".
    Cry me a river. Really. Showing "more sides than just one-sided" to who exactly? On what stage? MMO-Champion OT? And what will this endeavor earn you exactly hmm? I'm not sure if you've been paying attention to this thread, but it's mostly been citizens of NATO countries throwing bombs at Team Russia that discredited itself from day one with Orwellian after Orwellian claim, with occasional interjection by MMO-Champion's Chief Anti-Western Correspondent Cybran and his barely comprehensible Italian lackey. It's been simultaneously MMO-Champion's most and least rewarding thread. Hell if this topic isn't the most interesting in months. But fuck, the most surprising thing about it is that Bakis and I actually got along in it.... most everyone else is saying exactly what you would expect them to say. This is a place where people fact check the fact check the fact check over and over again, and try to screw people who say unsubstantiated things (see: "Most Russian conscripts stay in the service until they retire or die"). We measure US / Russian schlongs and spend time extrapolating where events will go based on recent developments. All of it is very fun.

    So you want to "show more than one-side"? You may want to consider your platform. This is not an effective one for what you want. You will find no unconverted here. I'm sure you can picture in your head exactly what Team NATO and Team Russia will say if Russian tanks roll into the rest of Ukraine. And simultaneously, I'm sure you can envision what they will say if Russia decides to stand down and stop acting completely nuts. That is what this thread is.

    Believe me, I'm all for talking to a tough audience. But let's be real. Most Europeans, even when they are pissed at the US for one thing or another, legitimately want Russia as far away from them as humanely possible. Americans? Well messing with Russia and rallying the rest around our common banner is our bread and butter, so this is like slipping on a comfortable pair of pants. Russians? Well, Vladmir Putin is hawking upon them the most bullshit sense of pride that one could ever conjour up... but it's still pride they haven't felt in many years, so their behavior is understandable. This is not the stage you're looking for.


    Quote Originally Posted by TooMuch View Post
    Check for example my post where i explained how dependent Russia is on the Ukraine... Too many people in this thread don't know shit and are very one-sided, but behave like they know everything. Guess they had some drunken talk in the pub or something?
    You weren't the first person to post that info. We're 682 pages into an affair that started in February whose pace of events slowed down dramatically in the last two weeks (but might be picking up again soon)

  18. #13078
    Quote Originally Posted by OmniSkribe View Post
    Facts have nothing to do with insults.
    Then tell me, I'm clueless about what history? What words? What meanings? Until you can point out what I am supposedly not comprehending then all you say are petty insults.
    I'm a European federalist. Now you know.


  19. #13079
    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    Provokers. They did their job, raised the hysteria so that the crowd was ready to blame anyone, and instigators made sure the blame lay where it was needed. But this time, it's government officially putting down resistance by lethal force. And they have to hire Greystone for that because local police doesn't want to get their hands this dirty. European idylle.

    Shh, don't tell him that USSR won WW2 on 9th of May and that we celebrate this day ever since, or we'll get a gazillion pages of posts about how it was actuallly an elite squad of American Nazi-hunters that assassinated Hitler and won the war.
    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    What's the lives of a couple of random hamsters worth? The hysteria and provocation are much more meaningful than two additional throats shouting slogans. And it's a good excuse to lay the blame on the opponents.
    Lets think about this for a moment.

    Who would benefit from forcibly removing the protesters? Yanukovich

    Who Would benefit from creating violent chaos? Who says that they reserve all the rights to defend their ethnic citizens from violence even outside their own borders? Who invaded and annexed Crimea on the basis of protecting ethnic Russians from violent riots? Who is currently massing military forces on the Ukrainian border, ready to invade and annex the rest of eastern Ukraine since they couldn't pressure the Ukrainian government to federalize the country so that the new states could join Russia out of their on "free will"?

  20. #13080
    Quote Originally Posted by catablitz View Post
    Killing unarmed civilians or bombing does not count as combat experience.
    You can say the same about the Chechnya wars..

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