1. #1

    Request for logs critique

    I have a rogue on our 10m that is struggling to decide whether to go combat or not on Garrosh. She is normally assassination. She also feels her numbers are lower than what they should be and is looking for some advice so I come here to you. One because I have no experience with Rogues past level 13, and two... you are experts.

    I can't post links yet, but she is Malitia on Dentarg if you want to look up the armory. The Garrosh logs are on: www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/ztBGxFpbTjwyfM4D

    Thanks in advance for your advice on helping her game play. The first few pulls she is in Assassination but at some point during the night she switched over to Combat so the latter logs should be in that spec I believe.
    Last edited by Kael; 2014-02-26 at 06:23 PM. Reason: fixed link

  2. #2
    I'm still figuring out how best to take apart logs on Warcraftlogs, but I'll start you off with one note regardless of spec: Slice and Dice uptime is far, far too low. You never want to see a rogue with less than 98-99% SnD uptime, so SnD sitting over/under 60% is really costing a lot of DPS. This discrepancy shows up even in assassination, where SnD refreshes on envenom use.

    Your rogue also turns on Blade Flurry for a long time at the end of the last pull, which is a significant energy loss and provides no benefit to late-fight Garrosh.


    These are some real rogue basics. I'd seriously advise your rogue to read a gameplay guide for both specs before continuing, then come back for assistance after some practice.
    Last edited by Kael; 2014-02-26 at 06:30 PM.

  3. #3
    Any particular gameplay guide you would recommend pointing her towards? Or will standard icy-veins rotation guides suffice?

  4. #4
    For the mistakes she's doing icy veins is probably better advised: you can start nitpicking on a few optimisations later, but these are major flaws.
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  5. #5
    Ok, let me ask this. Just to keep it simple, is there any spec she should focus on (rather than trying to read up on all three?). She's raided the most in Assassination for us so unless there is any strong reason not to, I'm inclined to have her just focus on that guide/rotation and not worry about other specs for now.

    And as follow-up, do you guys feel the stat weighting in AMR is ok for her to follow for gearing/gemming/reforging or are their any stat weight customizations recommended for Rogues (Assuming Assassination again here).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, just thinking about the 98-99% uptime on SnD... is that a fair benchmark on Garrosh with the movement and intermissions? I'm not trying to defend the 60%, but I want to set a fair expectation also.

    Our strat in P1 is to just stay grouped up at the bottom of the horseshow and dps through the boss/adds/weapons. So there isn't any movement whatsoever, but alot of aoe and expectation that target switching occurs between Garrosh to Des weapon when it comes up. P2 there isn't much movement for melee either as they stay with tanks and just pop a minor personal def CD through whirling corruptions. It's not until after the 2nd intermission that there is time away from the boss when we separate for the empowered whirling corruptions.

    With that in mind, is a more realistic expectation of SnD uptime around 90% perhaps?

  6. #6
    High Overlord Raic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thaylen View Post
    Ok, let me ask this. Just to keep it simple, is there any spec she should focus on (rather than trying to read up on all three?). She's raided the most in Assassination for us so unless there is any strong reason not to, I'm inclined to have her just focus on that guide/rotation and not worry about other specs for now.

    And as follow-up, do you guys feel the stat weighting in AMR is ok for her to follow for gearing/gemming/reforging or are their any stat weight customizations recommended for Rogues (Assuming Assassination again here).
    I'd say the spec depends on two factors, what she's comfortable with and what the raid needs.

    For Garrosh specifically (I assume normal?), if your raid group is having difficulty with adds in P1, adds in the Jade Temple transition, and MCs, then Combat might be a spec worth looking into. If not, then she can play whatever she feels she's best at.

    I haven't looked deep into the logs yet, but if she's struggling with the basics, Icy-veins is a decent tool to start with. Elitistjerks articles and guides in the Rogue section of the official forums can also help.

    If Slice and Dice uptime is an issue, check to see how she's tracking it. I'm sure that can make a big difference with some players. An addon like WeakAuras (I use this to track all of my buffs/debuffs/cds) can assist with this.

    For optimization, have her check out Shadowcraft. It's a gear optimization tool made specifically for rogues. From what I can tell, AMR's default stat weights are static (you can adjust these yourself, but it takes extra steps, i.e. simulationcraft), while Shadowcraft updates your stat weights based on current gear and gems/reforges.
    Last edited by Raic; 2014-02-26 at 07:37 PM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Thaylen View Post
    Ok, let me ask this. Just to keep it simple, is there any spec she should focus on (rather than trying to read up on all three?). She's raided the most in Assassination for us so unless there is any strong reason not to, I'm inclined to have her just focus on that guide/rotation and not worry about other specs for now.
    If you have trouble with the first heart phase (Jade Temple), she should be Combat. It can essentially solo a group with BF+KSp. If the first heart phase is not a problem, she can play any spec if she plays it well.

    EDIT: Oh, this is normal. She can play anything without issue. Combat is probably slightly better than Assassination at her gear level, but Garrosh is particularly good for Mut because there is a lot of Dispatch time. Combat can cleave early on, but Mut can crush the boss later on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thaylen View Post
    And as follow-up, do you guys feel the stat weighting in AMR is ok for her to follow for gearing/gemming/reforging or are their any stat weight customizations recommended for Rogues (Assuming Assassination again here).
    Use ShadowCraft.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thaylen View Post
    Also, just thinking about the 98-99% uptime on SnD... is that a fair benchmark on Garrosh with the movement and intermissions? I'm not trying to defend the 60%, but I want to set a fair expectation also.

    Our strat in P1 is to just stay grouped up at the bottom of the horseshow and dps through the boss/adds/weapons. So there isn't any movement whatsoever, but alot of aoe and expectation that target switching occurs between Garrosh to Des weapon when it comes up. P2 there isn't much movement for melee either as they stay with tanks and just pop a minor personal def CD through whirling corruptions. It's not until after the 2nd intermission that there is time away from the boss when we separate for the empowered whirling corruptions.

    With that in mind, is a more realistic expectation of SnD uptime around 90% perhaps?
    We use a similar strat. I had 97.8% uptime on SnD on our kill last week and I remember messing something up with my SnD a few times because with the nerfs we were pushing at strange times and I wasn't entirely used to it.

    Rogues can CoS through Whirling, so she should never really leave melee. If you have trouble with space, let her keep and kill her add in melee while the off tank takes his out since tanks can't be targets for the Weapon.

  8. #8
    It is Garrosh Normal difficulty and we aren't having any trouble with the adds, either in P1 or the intermission. In fact I suspect Garrosh will fall for us this week either way as we had a 3% and 5% wipe last week right before calling it for the night. And I suspect we would have easily had him on the 3% wipe but he caught one of the dps with an annihilate up the steps in the 2nd intermission which put us behind just enough that it would have made the difference in P3. And we still haven't seen P3 enough times to truly have mastered positioning for the mechanics so there is some opportunity for cleanup there as well which would get us the victory without the dps.

    This is just more about helping her to optimize her play and Garrosh is the example because that is the boss we have the latest logs for. And because a number of people are telling her she should play Combat for Garrosh (which I guess is the general opinion here as well for improved AoE dmg (if I'm reading between the lines correctly)). Personally I'd prefer improved single target dps for Garrosh at this point since we aren't having issues with the adds.

  9. #9
    High Overlord Raic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thaylen View Post
    This is just more about helping her to optimize her play and Garrosh is the example because that is the boss we have the latest logs for. And because a number of people are telling her she should play Combat for Garrosh (which I guess is the general opinion here as well for improved AoE dmg (if I'm reading between the lines correctly)). Personally I'd prefer improved single target dps for Garrosh at this point since we aren't having issues with the adds.
    Cleaving/AoE will look better on the meters, but if adds aren't an issue, then this fight comes down to dealing with the mechanics properly and putting out as much damage as possible on Garrosh (within reason, pushing a phase at a bad time can cause trouble). Based on your posts in this thread, whatever spec she can pump out the most damage on Garrosh with will benefit the raid the most.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Thaylen View Post
    This is just more about helping her to optimize her play and Garrosh is the example because that is the boss we have the latest logs for. And because a number of people are telling her she should play Combat for Garrosh (which I guess is the general opinion here as well for improved AoE dmg (if I'm reading between the lines correctly)). Personally I'd prefer improved single target dps for Garrosh at this point since we aren't having issues with the adds.
    If you're looking long-term, learning everything is always best (the top spec varies with tier, weapons available (and that drop), and various fight mechanics), but if time is a relevant concern, her learning speed is more the question. Assassination, once you know what you're supposed to be doing, is really easy to execute properly given a day or two of practice. Combat's 90% equally easy to understand, but may take longer to assimilate, as the rotation is much faster-paced. For the experienced MMO player and quick study, I'd recommend Combat, as any chance to abuse cleave or burst (adds, siegecrafter belt, engineers) can make it very, very useful. For a struggling player, assassination should be easier to pick up. You'd know your players better than we do.

    Specifically for Garrosh, and for your kill next raid night, I'd strongly recommend assassination, as it's easier to pick up and strong on Garrosh in P3.

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