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  1. #41
    Stood in the Fire
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    Not trying to troll or be rude but if you find Inquisition difficult to maintain, you're doing it wrong.

    I'd also disagree with another poster that it should not be able to be a 100% uptime. That would just cause an even greater disparity between DPS classes that do have to maintain these types of buffs.

  2. #42
    I don't like Inquisition. It's not really a choice. You either use it and do good damage, or you don't and do shitty damage.

    It's basically an ability that forces you to lose 6-8 seconds of your pre-pot and possibly lust to get the HP to put it up, so that you don't have to refresh it during the middle of AW/GOAK hammerspam and lose damage. Not to mention getting that crucial 3-point Inq up fucks your rotation by forcing you to miss a CS. So much wrong with it.

    If Ret had an ability to start a fight with 3 charges of HP to get Inq rolling, I *might* be OK with it.
    Last edited by Farabee; 2014-02-27 at 04:44 PM.

  3. #43
    Banned anaxie's Avatar
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    I don't hate Inquisition.

    Thread is now VOID. Abort thread

  4. #44
    My personal take on Inquisition, throughout its life:

    Cataclysm - I hated Inquisition. It took forever to generate the 3 HP to cast, we couldn't really bank HP so we had to cast it earlier than we'd like to prevent it dropping, and it lasted such a short amount of time (relative to the time to build 3 HP) that it felt like I was casting it every 2nd or 3rd TV. It was just terrible.

    MoP (launch) - Two big changes made Inquisition much nicer to deal with. First, our HP generation was sped up quite a bit, especially at the pull when we could use CS, Judge, and Exo back to back, meaning that it didn't take so long to ramp up. Second, we could store up to 5 HP, so there are times where Inq would be about to fall off and we could cast it and a TV shortly after. As we acquired more gear and our cooldowns sped up due to SoB, it got even easier.

    MoP (current) - I don't mind Inquisition at all. It lasts for a long enough period of time that it's painless to keep up. If combined with the glyph (+30s to the duration after getting a killing blow) it is trivial.

    On a different note, I also disliked how empty it felt in Cataclysm because *nothing happened* when we cast it. We just stood there doing nothing. This has been mitigated with the shorter GCDs so it doesn't feel quite so empty. Still would be nice if there was an animation, perhaps the kneel animation used with Holy Avenger?

    Quote Originally Posted by Farabee View Post
    It's basically an ability that forces you to lose 6-8 seconds of your pre-pot and possibly lust to get the HP to put it up, so that you don't have to refresh it during the middle of AW/GOAK hammerspam and lose damage.
    Well, Blizzard has stated that they don't like how high initial burst is, so it wouldn't surprise me if they break it in WoD - but that's just speculation.

  5. #45
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    I don't hate Inquisition.

    Thread is now VOID. Abort thread
    You're Horde. Your argument is invalid.
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  6. #46
    Banned anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    You're Horde. Your argument is invalid.
    You're not Anaxie. Perma Invalid

  7. #47
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    You're not Anaxie. Perma Invalid
    Don't need to be
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! My Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/user/Aeluron

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by ColbaneX View Post
    "I hate having to keep a GCD open for Tigereye Brew. I'd much rather use another jab, Tiger's Palm, Rising Sun Kick, Blackout Kick or Fists of Fury." That's what you all sound like. The closest thing to Inq is SnD/Savage Roar which is the exact same situation. You'd rather be doing a different finisher. Well of COURSE you do, finishers put big flashy numbers on your screen. You also forget that just by having that Buff up you increase your long term DPS, and your minimum baseline. It comes as a trade off, a burst of damage then and a increase in overall dps, or keeping your dps curve smooth with no drop off.
    Except Tigereye Brew is the equivalent of Avenging Wrath, not Inquisition. We've already had several monks come by to express their disdain for Tiger Palm, and that only costs you ONE CHI.
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  9. #49
    The Patient Romanesca's Avatar
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    Inquisition is fine. 60 second duration, and we practically gain holy power with every ability now. I think the rotation is too easy and boring, hence why I stopped playing my ret. I'd rather they make the spec less of "mash every button and wait for cd's" and make it something more challenging. I personally remember really liking ret in 4.0.3 because you only had 1 holy power generator, so you had to manage your abilities a bit more. But in pvp it did SUCK really bad. But, the 40% RNG 3 holy power proc made it a lot more interesting too, being able to spam TV over and over again. I think they need to make that a passive talent, and increase it to 30%.

  10. #50
    Stood in the Fire stuartj1992's Avatar
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    Best thing about Inquisition is that no one expects it.

  11. #51
    *Reads thread title*
    Excuse me? I don't hate it... Just because you don't doesn't mean everyone does. I have no problem spending 3HP on Inq during combat, and if the skill icon gets that sparkling border thing, it doesn't cost HP at all right? And pardon me for being stupid but i don't see how your method is much different then it is now.

    As you can tell i don't go into numbers and percentages as well, i don't really care about that sort of stuff and i wouldn't understand anyway I just play and have fun fun fun!
    Last edited by giovannileanza; 2014-02-27 at 08:06 PM.
    @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

  12. #52
    Inq is the dumbest spell yet. It is absolute pain in the ass. Just remove it or make it 3 min cooldown buff...

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by stuartj1992 View Post
    Best thing about Inquisition is that no one expects it.
    Only on some EU servers, though.
    "You little hoochees!" - Daos, Lord of Terror

    Quote Originally Posted by PraisetheSun View Post
    "NEENER-NEENER RETS ARE WIENERS."

  14. #54
    Banned anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romanesca View Post
    Inquisition is fine. 60 second duration, and we practically gain holy power with every ability now. I think the rotation is too easy and boring, hence why I stopped playing my ret. I'd rather they make the spec less of "mash every button and wait for cd's" and make it something more challenging. I personally remember really liking ret in 4.0.3 because you only had 1 holy power generator, so you had to manage your abilities a bit more. But in pvp it did SUCK really bad. But, the 40% RNG 3 holy power proc made it a lot more interesting too, being able to spam TV over and over again. I think they need to make that a passive talent, and increase it to 30%.
    4.0 ret was slow clunky and retarded.

  15. #55
    Inquisition lasts a min now and 3 hp is a joke to get now in cata maybe you could have complained but now?

  16. #56
    Stood in the Fire stuartj1992's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredzilla View Post
    Only on some EU servers, though.
    Aye. The Spanish ones.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumineus View Post
    Except Tigereye Brew is the equivalent of Avenging Wrath, not Inquisition. We've already had several monks come by to express their disdain for Tiger Palm, and that only costs you ONE CHI.
    Tiger Palm? Seriously? The buff that maintains itself ~75% of the time because of Combo Breaker procs?

    Do you guys miss the era of 1-button rotation macros or something? >.<

    (also, it's not the Chi cost, it's the GCD, since you can usually bank 1 Chi without affecting anything in your cycle as Windwalker, especially with Ascension)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shelly View Post
    I used to be a straight "well throw it in the fire, we don't need it!" Guy, but that was before they extended it to 1-minute. Now I really get the idea of wanting a trade off and some ramp up, but inquisition is a rather boring way to do it. We have the exact same priority as everything only with a button we hit once a minute. Whoop te do.
    I still don't understand how remembering to bank and spend 3 HP per 60 seconds to keep your DPS at max is less interesting than not having to do that. This has me so weirded out. "I have to do more things which is much more boring than doing less things."

    So it's pretty much the same as it currently exists only with the ability to cram out an additional DS, TV or 3-HP WoG each minute.
    How does that make anything better? Once per 60s you do one extra attack rather than diligently maintain a DPS buff. And apparently wasting 3 HP on WoG is not boring, but spending 3 HP to buff your damage output meaningfully is boring? Are you just a very, very "in the moment" person? o.O

    However I find the inquisition mechanics to be just boring. I find most of the active-passive DPS increase skills to be boring though. On some classes I do think they can be a major skillcheck, such as slice and dice for a rogue whose abilities come a lot faster and have a more intense resource management game than paladins. But for paladins it's just not a skill check, it's a minor roadblock.
    Slice and Dice is not a skillcheck (these days, if ever) and Rogues do not have "intense resource management". Healers have intense resource management. Rogues spam SS or patiently wait for Envenom to hit 1s. S&D is exactly like Inq, something you monitor and maintain properly as a minor part of your focus on everything else.

    I think it would be far more interesting as something that gave you not only that long term benefit but an immediate reward as well.
    Right, so back to my question: if activating Inquisition made everything next to you explode into Holy flames, would it become "unboring"?

    I'm trying to find your dividing line here between what makes TV/DS "deeply engaging and fascinating" and Inq "so terribly dry and boring".
    Last edited by Lovestar; 2014-02-27 at 11:15 PM.

  18. #58
    Moderator Krekko's Avatar
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    I'd much rather have Inquisition's maintenance mechanic be folded into another system for our class.

    I don't mind Inq as it is now, but it's just so boring and plain for most of the time. I much rather have a much more intricate system for Seals/Judgement than that. I mean, I'm all for bringing back consumable seals, I always loved that TBH, and would much rather have that than Inq.
    Last edited by Krekko; 2014-02-28 at 05:26 AM.
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  19. #59
    Stood in the Fire Smitus's Avatar
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    Inquisition actually one of my favorite parts of ret, when it is "perfect" to use it is more complex than intuition would tell
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  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Lovestar View Post
    I still don't understand how remembering to bank and spend 3 HP per 60 seconds to keep your DPS at max is less interesting than not having to do that. This has me so weirded out. "I have to do more things which is much more boring than doing less things."
    It's not that I don't want to do MORE THINGS, it's that I want the things I do to feel like they have meaning. Inquisition doesn't.

    There's no dynamic choice involved in using inquisition - at least in terms of PvE. Sure there's the few times where maybe you're down low on HP and need to really make that choice between a WoG and an Inquisition but those are rare. The skill is a straight filler in our priority list, do this or you're boned. There's not the choice in whether it's more important to AoE with DS compared to using a TV, there's nothing there, it's maintenance.

    What I'm saying is fold our maintenance into the basic skills somehow and then give us a choice. Maybe a ranged attack, maybe something that would consume our judgement for an effect, maybe it's just a button that immediately produces a grilled cheese sandwich delivered to our door. (I would bang the SHIT out of that button!)

    Our skills should be things we can get passionate about, I don't see many folks who are actually passionate about inquisition. I see a lot of "well I could take it or leave it now that it lasts a minute ...." I don't see anyone rabidly defending it and even your defense boils down to you think our rotation is boring without some sort of maintenance filler.

    How does that make anything better? Once per 60s you do one extra attack rather than diligently maintain a DPS buff. And apparently wasting 3 HP on WoG is not boring, but spending 3 HP to buff your damage output meaningfully is boring? Are you just a very, very "in the moment" person? o.O
    Sometimes. And yeah, I'll totally admit that I like seeing numbers flash across my screen because I just introduced someone's ancestors to my TV.

    And my point is that yeah, it's a meaningful buff. It's so meaningful that it's mandatory, it's not even a question of "Should I spend the HP and have this up or do X?" The buff is so meaningful that it's lost any oomph or dynamics in nature. Give it a shared cooldown with something, make it a trade off, make it your go to skill in one situation but not in another. All those are aspects of meaning and choice, right now there is none.

    That isn't to say that inquisition doesn't serve a few important purposes, but those purposes can be baked into the skills we already have.

    None of this is about inquisition being hard to maintain, it's about it being boring. Sure the results are nice but when those results are the average rather than the exemplary there's not much point to the power.

    Right, so back to my question: if activating Inquisition made everything next to you explode into Holy flames, would it become "unboring"?

    I'm trying to find your dividing line here between what makes TV/DS "deeply engaging and fascinating" and Inq "so terribly dry and boring".
    Maybe. Are they being damaged? Is it just cosmetic? Did I have to make a choice between 30% more damage on all of my skills for the next minute or 500% damage right now with a shared cooldown? Did I make a decision between buffing my personal damage for a great amount or my team damage for a moderate amount?

    What makes TV/DS interesting is mostly when you use them. How many enemies are around? Does the math add up to where it makes sense to DS over TV? If I spend this HP right now how many more seconds before I can rebuild to 3?

    Inquisition lacks that dynamic. It simply comes down to is inquisition up Y/N? If Y then choose an attack. if N then put inquisition up. There's no dynamic trade off there, it's keep it up or do crap damage. It's "Do I have socks today, Y/N? If Y then skip laundry. If N then do laundry."

    Inquisition needs meaning outside of just the need to be maintained or blizz remove it and fold the ramp-up to better DPS into other skills.

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