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  1. #101
    Legendary! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    But Inq does produce a different number that pops up, Hand of Light, it makes HoL 30% bigger or more in some cases.
    You can add complexity and things like that with other spells if you think ret is dull, someone has yet to come up with a reason to WHY everything has to be a meaningful desision, back when Inq was 30s you'd often refresh early because X was gonna happen. You still do but far less because ppl crowd that it was annoying to keep up with a 30sec duration. Now that you got your way with a longer duration you're bitching because it doesn't give you a sense of choice. Turn it back down to a 30s duration? Would that give you a better sensation of "yes I did something!" Then let me ask, why not keep Inq and ADD a new ability that fills your need to feel special when you hit it.
    Again, I understand that Inq doesn't feel like fun. Lots of things aren't fun in this game, does that mean all those things are bad?
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  2. #102
    I find Inquisition to be rather interesting. It just adds to the specc, in my opinion. Do you find Execution Sentence more interesting than Inq? Especially now that with WoD dot snappshotting is going away?

    Hell, is Crusader Strike in itself such an interesting ability? Welp, it does damage... and... you press it pretty often... so uh... is that... so much more interesting? I don't feel any different between pressing CS or Inq. Both serve their purpose, both have their place in our playstyle.

    I'd even go as far as to say that without Inq, we wouldn't even need Holy Power anymore. Why have Holy Power at all when you are not required to watch anything or watch your resources and are able to just press everything according to our priority list? Would be WotLK all over again. Please... no.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    But Inq does produce a different number that pops up, Hand of Light, it makes HoL 30% bigger or more in some cases.
    You can add complexity and things like that with other spells if you think ret is dull, someone has yet to come up with a reason to WHY everything has to be a meaningful desision, back when Inq was 30s you'd often refresh early because X was gonna happen. You still do but far less because ppl crowd that it was annoying to keep up with a 30sec duration. Now that you got your way with a longer duration you're bitching because it doesn't give you a sense of choice. Turn it back down to a 30s duration? Would that give you a better sensation of "yes I did something!" Then let me ask, why not keep Inq and ADD a new ability that fills your need to feel special when you hit it.
    Again, I understand that Inq doesn't feel like fun. Lots of things aren't fun in this game, does that mean all those things are bad?
    Yes, but that number is auto-folded into the damage that shows should you have your settings made for numbers to go flying across your screen.

    Why are you so attached to inquisition the the way it is now? In what ways do you feel it adds meaningful complexity to your priority list?

    As for the duration, I thought the spell was really lame at 30s, I think it's less annoying at 1-minute but I still don't see a reason for it to exist in the current Blizzard dogma of wanting meaningful choices.

    Given the lack of a meaningful choice in the usage of Inquisition I'd much rather see it scrapped and the damage baked into the class. Then you can replace it with something that does give a meaningful choice and trade off for the same resource cost. Also I'm fine with them revamping the ability to add that meaningful choice.

    And of course it doesn't mean those things are bad, I'd dare say that the majority of the things that are "not fun" are the reason people keep playing. Whether it be cruising around looking for resource nodes to gather or trawling trade chat to look for a PuG or Flex group, those are very boring things but they also keep you playing because they offer rewards in income and in the creation of community.

    However when it comes to true "maintenance" abilities, meaning abilities that only boost one thing, are required to be up constantly and have no tertiary effects of a short or long term nature (damage, run speed, attack speed, etc) then why should they be there as an activated ability? Why not make them passives?

    Want examples?

    Icy Talons.
    Sunder Armor.
    Blessings and other buffs. (Yes, not passives but if you want to go back to the days of needing 500+ emblems of kings in your inventory for raid night you're insane.)
    Paladin Auras - basically entirely removed and turned into more dynamic abilities that are now interesting rather than just sitting around and making sure you've got an armor buff and a damage on getting hit buff and a fast-cast buff.
    Demo-Shout - same as Paladin Auras, turned from a "oh crap, I gotta keep this damned thing up ..." to a "Big hit coming, better shout it out!"

    The list continues but I'm too tired to remember all the changes that they've made to fit their philosophy since LK came along and has only refined through Cat and MoP.

    So tell me, what is it about inquisition that you love so much and what is it that scares you about the possibility of them taking it away?

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Shelly View Post
    [...]
    Why are you so attached to inquisition the the way it is now? In what ways do you feel it adds meaningful complexity to your priority list?
    [...]
    Given the lack of a meaningful choice in the usage of Inquisition I'd much rather see it scrapped and the damage baked into the class. Then you can replace it with something that does give a meaningful choice and trade off for the same resource cost. Also I'm fine with them revamping the ability to add that meaningful choice.
    [...]
    However when it comes to true "maintenance" abilities, meaning abilities that only boost one thing, are required to be up constantly and have no tertiary effects of a short or long term nature (damage, run speed, attack speed, etc) then why should they be there as an activated ability? Why not make them passives?
    [...]
    So tell me, what is it about inquisition that you love so much and what is it that scares you about the possibility of them taking it away?
    It does not add that much complexity. However, you could apply that to everything. Do Wings add complexity? I just hit it whenever it's off cooldown and the enemy is worth the cooldown.

    " 'maintenance abilities' " as you said: Would you like Inq, if it wouldn't just increase your Holy Damage by a whopping 30% (oh and that negligible 10% crit btw), but also does other stuff? For example... 10% run speed? Now... then it would be the same all over again! *We have to have Inq up all the time because otherwise we run so slowly - come on, why not just make it passive... yada yada yada*.

    Please, don't understand me wrong. Inquisition could by all means have another effect, for example a cone like damage or whatever, wouldn't matter, but it has to stay.

    And I want to point the question back at you: Please do pray tell, what is it about Inq that you hate so much and what is it that scares you about the possibility of them keeping it?

    Answer: Well, we've heard it already - *It's boring*. Hm, rather weak argument if you ask me. Sorry, I don't mean to insult.

  5. #105
    Legendary! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    Maintenance buffs / debuffs are there to always require your attention, if they weren't there we'd just blindly do our rotation, which we already do but maintenance buffs / debuffs adds a layer of "Keep this or suffer".

    Why am I so scared of losing Inq?
    First of all I think it adds to our gameplay, doesn't mean "fun" but it's something to do and I wouldn't mind if it went back to 36sec duration.
    Second of all Ret is 100% scaled with Inq in mind. Crit buff aside it impacts every single spell and our stat priorities, remove that 1 spell (Inq) and blizzard would have to retune: mastery scaling, seal scaling, DS scaling, Judgement scaling, Exorcism scaling, Hammer of Wrath scaling, all the talents in the Execution Sentence tier and our level 100 talents. Not to forget that they would have to look on how we deal damage during CDs.
    That's a big list of things to do just because you removed one mechanic and I'm sure I missed a couple things.
    Last edited by Huntingbear_grimbatol; 2014-03-02 at 03:19 AM.
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  6. #106
    To anyone who cannot comprehend why inqu is needed im typing this big and bold

    its not for complex, its not for im better then you.

    Inqu has to exist as a scaling factor goodbye inqu goodbye scaling.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by tristannarutofan View Post
    No warriors have to maintain deep wounds and apply colossal smash intelligently to do maximum damage.

    Aff warlocks have to channel their spell and make sure all 3 dots are on the enemy AND maintain a cast time spell that has to TRAVEL to the target and they only have 4 or so seconds to take advantage of that dps. now THAT is difficult. What is annoying is spending Demonic fury on transforming early to put on Doom because my dps is based on having BOTH doom and corruption on, and then having to turn back to start building up demonic fury because i have almost none at start of fight.

    Oh also you forgot the fact that Warriors have to BUILD their resources. takes a few seconds for Warriors to get some rage. Takes a fixed amount of seconds for paladins to get their inquisition up.

    Oh wait...but paladins can maintain a 40 second inquisition from 30 feet away (exorcism, judgement) while Warriors have to stay in melee range in order to keep their rage going.
    I never said keeping inquisition up was hard. I have no problem with it over all. It's just the fact that you have to build up the holy power to put Inquisition up and then manage it to still do bad sustained damage.

    If Retribution did good sustained damage and Inquisition was made to be a little more fun than just a mandatory temporary buff it would be fine in my opinion.

  8. #108
    Legendary! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    Wait, so you're saying that Inq would be fine if it increased holy damage to a point where it made us top 5 dps? Sorry but that's... yeah can't say that on forums but you know.
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  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    Wait, so you're saying that Inq would be fine if it increased holy damage to a point where it made us top 5 dps? Sorry but that's... yeah can't say that on forums but you know.
    Such demands have turned out fine for Mages. Arcane/Frost have been the #1/#2 DPS for several patches/expansions now.
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  10. #110
    I have no problems with Inquisition. What I do hate is seeing horrible Retribution Paladins never using it.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alenarien View Post
    Such demands have turned out fine for Mages. Arcane/Frost have been the #1/#2 DPS for several patches/expansions now.
    Yeah, well we aren't mages and have never been treated remotely as well as mages.
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  12. #112
    I have no probs with inq, its a Good Way to Play the retri, better as in wotlk

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Alenarien View Post
    Such demands have turned out fine for Mages. Arcane/Frost have been the #1/#2 DPS for several patches/expansions now.
    Mages are shit in SoO what are you talking about.

    Sims dont = reality

  14. #114
    Inquisition has been a hot button topic for years now. In Cata, we could pretty much count on ~15s ramp up to even land a TV since DP (and, by extension, mastery) were shit. Now, the ramp up has been slowed a bit, but it cuts down on "instant gratification," i.e. building a resource and getting the payoff. Now, while game design indeed revolves around "press button get damage" and "delayed gratification," somehow I don't think it's a fantasy of most Paladin players to spend time powering up, especially when other classes get their gratification sooner. Blizz has baked in passive damage increases (Sanctity Aura) before, so there's indeed a precedent, but saying that they will abolish an ability that keeps us somewhat competitive without offering anything in return is really pessimistic. Then again, 3.0 happened.

    On a sidenote, why are so many people asking for DP to be baseline, anyway? Didn't we learn from Cata? So annoying.
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  15. #115
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    I've never liked maintenance buffs because you keep them basically 100% anyways. Personally I'd rather see it baked into finishers, so it gets applied/refreshed as you do finishers rather than be something you have to keep up yourself. I'm in the minority though, since that "dumbs things down" and removes a button
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  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Mages are shit in SoO what are you talking about.

    Sims dont = reality
    Mages are not shit. Just because it's not warlock dps doesn't make a dps class terrible.
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  17. #117
    Well... original Warrior's shield block was hit every, what, 6 seconds?


    Kids these days.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Mages are shit in SoO what are you talking about.

    Sims dont = reality
    Didn't you side with HB in the last sims vs reality argument? :P

    Anyway, Arcane is highly competitive at top levels of play. The other Mage specs, not so much. This is mainly because their set bonus is broken as fuck, letting them sit at 4stack/max mana forever, dealing +200% damage on top of their full mastery bonus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absintheminded View Post
    Well... original Warrior's shield block was hit every, what, 6 seconds?


    Kids these days.
    You mean the ability they just macroed to everything because it was off GCD and cost a pitiably tiny amt of rage?
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  19. #119
    The Undying Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    I've never liked maintenance buffs because you keep them basically 100% anyways. Personally I'd rather see it baked into finishers, so it gets applied/refreshed as you do finishers rather than be something you have to keep up yourself. I'm in the minority though, since that "dumbs things down" and removes a button
    No you're not in the minority. I don't care for maintenance buffs but fuck me I guess.
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  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Lumineus View Post


    You mean the ability they just macroed to everything because it was off GCD and cost a pitiably tiny amt of rage?
    You don't know what you're talking about

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