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  1. #41
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Serenia View Post
    What a nice argument you've provided me to prove me wrong. If you want to see with your eyes what I described then log in in any server and look in the Trade chat, you will see the insane requirements. A new player with a fresh 90 can't get over the 528 barrier easily, and even that is nearly impossible since they are still new.
    You see ppl asking 540+ for flex all the time.
    I dont know what you think is hard, but i have 4 alts who are all above 528 ilvl and i'm not some kind of speciel snowflake.
    If you put any kind of half arsed effort into a character it can easily surpass 528 ilvl.

    Slacker

  2. #42
    I raided HC in Wolk and then took a long break, I would like to get back into raiding but since then I have switched to nights and finding a guild that works with that schedule is difficult to say the least. I have pugged some flex, I have a lock at 542 ilvl but alot of those turn to crap. Is there a decent way to research guilds so maybe I can find one that would possibly work with my schedule?

  3. #43
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by evansp View Post
    I raided HC in Wolk and then took a long break, I would like to get back into raiding but since then I have switched to nights and finding a guild that works with that schedule is difficult to say the least. I have pugged some flex, I have a lock at 542 ilvl but alot of those turn to crap. Is there a decent way to research guilds so maybe I can find one that would possibly work with my schedule?
    Yes you can check guilds out on:

    http://www.wowprogress.com/
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/874708/
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/1011639/

  4. #44
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    I just joined a freshly made guild that had never raided SoO normals before, joined as ilvl 539 and everyone had 530-545 ilvl. 1 month later we have the raid on farm and everyone is at 550+. This was long after SoO was released, everyone had taken a break and came back undergeared, so don't see how you can't do the same.
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  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Cle View Post
    Serenia is right, requirements for Flex raid are unreasonably high.

    Also good guilds almoust without exception require experience from full normal clears or even heroics.

    I dont understand why people ask for experience in raiding. Because even if I had heroic LK 25 kill from when the raid was current, it does not help me in Siege of Orgrimmar or any raid.

    Learning one raid does not teach you any other raid than the one you learned. If I had LKHC25 achievement and I joined some decent guild raiding SoO, I would be nothing different from any casual average raider because 1. I have no experience in playing with new team 2. All I can do at that point is read boss tactics and everyone knows them.

    Individual skill is not major issue for anyone in raiding, the hard part is to play together as a team.
    It's like a job application and in those cases previous experience is completely relevant.

    Without being mean, you are perhaps coming over as someone who doesn't mix well or doesn't have the time to get into raiding. The logic you use is obviously flawed "you learned to drive a ford fiesta, it's obviously nothing like driving a VW polo"... when that's clearly bollocks. Previous experience of raiding to a high level gives an idea that you can listen to the raid leaders, learn from mistakes, put effort into gear/gems/enchants to maximise your input, don't do stupid things and are situationally aware. Saying "it means shit" makes you look like you don't have the first clue what you're talking about - which is probably where your problem lays.

    Individual skill is EVERYTHING at raiding. It's pointless bringing someone who sucks as the rest of the team is then carrying him.

    Do LFR, get gear crafted, optimise the gear you have, all of that should get you started.

    I wish you all the luck but with what you've posted so far I don't think you care enough and are making excuses (said as constructive criticism, I'm not meaning to sound like a jerk).
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille
    I knew it would be useful to be french at some point.
    Quote Originally Posted by xxAkirhaxx
    just get a mac. It's like sleeping with a fat chick to avoid STD's.

  6. #46
    I''ll assume that you have LFR gear and no experience. The way to climb the raiding ladder from what I remember is that you can do two things:

    1. If you don't have prior raiding xp and raided only LFR, it is your goal to apply to a guild who is doing normal mode. You have to prove to the normal progression guild that you have potential by showing knowledge of your class on your application and displaying on your armory link that you know how to gear for the spec that you have chosen. An application with no raiding experience can really shine if they show that they have knowledge of their class and know how to gear and gem properly, so many people get this wrong. As you progress with raiding normal mode you will be able to gear/gain experience for a heroic guild. If you see after some time that you're better skilled then the players you a raiding with and can do better, you can go ahead and prove to a heroic guild that still progressing that you have the commitment they need.

    or

    2. Make good friends and get them to carry you.

  7. #47
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Cle View Post
    I dont understand how to make good application without alot of raiding experience. I can write nice words about how I am the most awesome person in the world but it will not get me in raiding guild.
    Just have to apply to the right guild. My guild recently recruited three players with no current raiding exp (old players coming back) and low ilvl (530ish and no legendary meta/cloak) and we will just give them a chance to play with us. Ok they will have to gear up during our alt run/second group, but they dont mind. Eventually they will get the chance to join our main raid. It being in SoO or in WoD.

    We don't mind putting in the effort to give lower geared/lesser experienced players a chance, while most guilds want a 'ready to go' player and won't settle for less. Although in my experience there is some really good players between the lesser geared.

  8. #48
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by mercutiouk View Post
    It's like a job application and in those cases previous experience is completely relevant.

    Without being mean, you are perhaps coming over as someone who doesn't mix well or doesn't have the time to get into raiding. The logic you use is obviously flawed "you learned to drive a ford fiesta, it's obviously nothing like driving a VW polo"... when that's clearly bollocks. Previous experience of raiding to a high level gives an idea that you can listen to the raid leaders, learn from mistakes, put effort into gear/gems/enchants to maximise your input, don't do stupid things and are situationally aware. Saying "it means shit" makes you look like you don't have the first clue what you're talking about - which is probably where your problem lays.

    Individual skill is EVERYTHING at raiding. It's pointless bringing someone who sucks as the rest of the team is then carrying him.

    Do LFR, get gear crafted, optimise the gear you have, all of that should get you started.

    I wish you all the luck but with what you've posted so far I don't think you care enough and are making excuses (said as constructive criticism, I'm not meaning to sound like a jerk).
    I dont need LKHC25 achievement to understand that I have to listen raid leader and learn from mistakes.

    Your car reference is just incorrect analogy. If you learn to drive 1 car, you can drive any car because they work the same way. Sure there are differences but you can still drive the car, while you can only learn boss tactics for 1 raid and apply them to that 1 raid only.

    I have already explained why top guilds are as good as they are, its the teamwork not the fact that people know boss tactics or rotations.

  9. #49
    Its definitely doable, I recently joined two separate guilds on 2 new chars that raid extremely casually, but its a start. OQueue is a must. I am currently sat at 552 on my hunter having never raided with a guild. LFR gear is 528, upgraded thats 536. Add some Ordos gear, celestials and cloak and you can easily get to 540. Most flex 1,2 on Oqueue ask for 530-535, and then you can push up your ilevel from there.

  10. #50
    Get on the guild hopping train, you can't just up and get into a great raiding guild with no raid experience unless a member of that guild has some good swing with their recruitment process and owes you a favour.

    Get into a regular flex group -> Get into a normal group -> get into an entry heroic group -> get into a progression heroic group -> attempt to get into server first raiding group -> attempt to get into world leading raiding group.

    You'll no doubt upset some people along the way, but you can minimise this by giving the guild plenty of notice before you jump ship. You never know though, you might find you don't enjoy the top rung and prefer relatively casual raiding environment.
    I am the lucid dream
    Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh


  11. #51
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Cle View Post
    I dont need LKHC25 achievement to understand that I have to listen raid leader and learn from mistakes.

    Your car reference is just incorrect analogy. If you learn to drive 1 car, you can drive any car because they work the same way. Sure there are differences but you can still drive the car, while you can only learn boss tactics for 1 raid and apply them to that 1 raid only.

    I have already explained why top guilds are as good as they are, its the teamwork not the fact that people know boss tactics or rotations.
    I disagree. Personal skill is more important now then ever. Sure teamwork is important too. But knowing when to pop what., where to stand and who to keep away from is personal skill. Thats what keeps you alive or kills you.

    Popping raid cd's is a part of teamwork, but it dosnt require as much teamwork as you seem to think it does.

  12. #52
    Deleted
    First problem is to get required gear for Flex raiding.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Cle View Post
    I dont need LKHC25 achievement to understand that I have to listen raid leader and learn from mistakes.

    Your car reference is just incorrect analogy. If you learn to drive 1 car, you can drive any car because they work the same way. Sure there are differences but you can still drive the car, while you can only learn boss tactics for 1 raid and apply them to that 1 raid only.

    I have already explained why top guilds are as good as they are, its the teamwork not the fact that people know boss tactics or rotations.
    If you learn to raid, the rest of it is just the next bosses tactics. It's a completely fair analogy. I'm unsure why you are resisting this idea. It's not just knowing how to down the next dude, it's a complete mix of periphery skills and personal input. All your points seem to be heading towards "how do I get into raiding with no personal effort or skills" which isn't something the community will be able to answer.


    Top guilds are a collection of individuals who know their class VERY well, spend time making sure their own performance is as close to perfect as it can get them AND have the ability to work well in a team.
    Sucky player + good teamwork = moron being carried by those around him. I'd seriously suggest you consider what's being said by myself and others here, you asked how to get into raiding, it's being explained and you are fighting each point made with excuses.
    Last edited by mercutiouk; 2014-02-27 at 12:54 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille
    I knew it would be useful to be french at some point.
    Quote Originally Posted by xxAkirhaxx
    just get a mac. It's like sleeping with a fat chick to avoid STD's.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Cle View Post

    I have already explained why top guilds are as good as they are, its the teamwork not the fact that people know boss tactics or rotations.
    Top guilds are good because their members are incredibly skilled. Teamwork comes into play as well, but saying personal skill is anything less than half of what matters is just wrong.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Cle View Post
    First problem is to get required gear for Flex raiding.
    Make friends, get stuff crafted, run the top 3/4 LFR's every week and make sure you know where to spend you bonus rolls wisely.
    Last edited by mercutiouk; 2014-02-27 at 12:56 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille
    I knew it would be useful to be french at some point.
    Quote Originally Posted by xxAkirhaxx
    just get a mac. It's like sleeping with a fat chick to avoid STD's.

  16. #56
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Zabusasan View Post
    I disagree. Personal skill is more important now then ever. Sure teamwork is important too. But knowing when to pop what., where to stand and who to keep away from is personal skill. Thats what keeps you alive or kills you.

    Popping raid cd's is a part of teamwork, but it dosnt require as much teamwork as you seem to think it does.
    Every average normal/heroic raider knows their rotation, what makes top raiders top raiders is the team synergy. If you take 1 paragon raider and place him in some average raiding guild, he does not stand out and may even perform worse in that particular team because team just doesnt work together.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Cle View Post
    First problem is to get required gear for Flex raiding.
    Untrue, you simply start your own flex group. Might be hard at first, but you'll eventually get a functional group together, the first section is basically LFR difficulty anyway.
    I am the lucid dream
    Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh


  18. #58
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Cle View Post
    Every average normal/heroic raider knows their rotation, what makes top raiders top raiders is the team synergy. If you take 1 paragon raider and place him in some average raiding guild, he does not stand out and may even perform worse in that particular team because team just doesnt work together.
    You seem to think than when we talk about personal skill we are refering to rotation only. People like this cannot be argued with

  19. #59
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Zabusasan View Post
    You seem to think than when we talk about personal skill we are refering to rotation only. People like this cannot be argued with
    There isnt anything else "individual skill" than how to play your class, everything else is team work.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Cle View Post
    Every average normal/heroic raider knows their rotation, what makes top raiders top raiders is the team synergy. If you take 1 paragon raider and place him in some average raiding guild, he does not stand out and may even perform worse in that particular team because team just doesnt work together.
    Incorrect, he'd still know his class better and it would show.

    Get in LFR, if you consistantly hold top 5 positions (dps) top 2 positions (healing) or don't screw up as tank, you likely have the skills for normal raiding. If you can't stand out in the mass of kiddies and cluelessness in LFR, the problem is you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille
    I knew it would be useful to be french at some point.
    Quote Originally Posted by xxAkirhaxx
    just get a mac. It's like sleeping with a fat chick to avoid STD's.

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