That being said. Teamwork is very important in being a great guild, but being able to adapt and do boss tactics as well as maximizing your performance is just as important. There's no point being a team if you can't meet an enrage timer/come up with a tactic that works for your guild. It's easy to copy, say, Method's tactics when your guild is ~10 ilvls above their average the first time they killed it because you don't need to compensate for less gear/the limit of your guilds players.
Judging by your posts in this thread, and no offence, I wouldn't want to play with you. The key to a great guild is everyone being on the same page.
Get in LFR, if you consistantly hold top 5 positions (dps) top 2 positions (healing) or don't screw up as tank, you likely have the skills for normal raiding. If you can't stand out in the mass of kiddies and cluelessness in LFR, the problem is you.
Originally Posted by BoubouilleOriginally Posted by xxAkirhaxx
If you don't see the difference being knowing your rotation and truly mastering a class (like every top 10 guild raider does), I just don't know what to say. There are different levels of class mastery.
The average high end guild probably has better communication, leadership, teamwork, synergy, etc than the average normal mode guild, but the also have players who are significantly better at the game.
None of that is rotation and is absolutely paramount to killing the fight. We've had raiders that are fantastic at dps, but failed quite notably on the belts, causing wipes until we either replaced their roles or replaced them from the group.
First of all, read all the comments I made, I'm talking about NEW players. NOT ABOUT ME.. I've stopped wow for some time now due to not being able to play with friends anymore. I managed to get 545 ilvl without any sort of commited raiding and I actually carried the group dps wise by a large margin on all flex encounters and even in some small pugs that killed the first few bosses in the instance. I got some raiding experience both on normal and HC under my belt and I was invited by various guilds / accepted my application to join them that are now 10/14 HC- 13/14 HC. My 2 alts are both also capable of tanking and dpsing FLEX with 531 ilvl and 534 ilvl respectively. All of that with that "kind of half arsed effort" you are talking about...
Now imagine a fresh player that has hit 90 just now, he can get 528 ilvl + upgraded 536 ilvl from LFR at most and we all know how often LFR drops items...
Legendary Cloak? HAHAHA, They would need to play 1-2 months to get it. And oh look, as I mentioned above MOST FLEX groups require 540 ilvl even for the FIRST part of SoO flex. Can you UNDERSTAND ALL OF THIS? Thank you!
This leads to survivability and hc kills. This is the most important factor of Raiding.
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And nobody talked about carrying a lazy person who can't even bother to gem his sockets/enchant his gear (or even reforge it since you didn't mention it!) either.
Also, this problem doesn't directly relate to me, I could get in flex with my 545 toon anytime or start raiding in a decent guild once more if I were to sub back. I was just talking about the NEW players.
None of that is learned in LKHC25, people have to learn all that encounter spesific stuff for every raid boss. That was the point.
RE: most flex groups set impossibly high requirements:
These are upcoming events on openraid. I opened all of the SoO raids on the first couple pages. This is what I found
flex 1-4 525 ilvl
flex 1-3 530 ilvl
flex 1-3 530 ilvl
flex 1-2 520 ilvl
flex 1-4 beginner friendly, 500 ilvl
flex 3-4 535 ilvl
flex 2 525 ilvl
flex 4 zerg 538 ilvl
flex 4 zerg 550 ilvl
Clearly jut not looking hard enough..
Last edited by Notdev; 2014-02-27 at 01:10 PM.
how do new players get into raiding? put in the effort, learn their class and spent their time gearing up until they find a guild that takes them, maybe?
i dont really know what the problem is, i also freshly started in cataclysm, played 1-2 months on my own, getting ready and gearing up and only then approached a guild, which was willing to accept a new player without prior raiding experience (of which there are a lot). Now i am clearing hc raid content while its relevant.
WoW is not an arcade style game where all options are open to you from the get go (even if Blizzard is changing a lot in order to offer more accessability). It's still deeply founded in traditional RPG way which require you to slowly progress your character and gain more power over time.
MoP made a lot of things easier, allowing you to progress your gear even outside of raids, and any1 with at least a rudimentary amount of analytical thinking and problem solving skills should be able to find his/her way into an entry level guild.
E.g. i am often baffled how people do not know how to find further information about their class, about gearing up and progressing your character, and finding likely minded players when all you have to do is start a quick google search
Last edited by runey; 2014-02-27 at 01:17 PM.