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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Saeran View Post
    Totally agree.

    Out of curiosity, in the last AV call to arms weekend, I played 50 AVs on horde and won 8 and I played 50 AVs on alliance and won 39. The players aren't better or worse on either side, so there is and always has been a distinct advantage to the alliance in this BG. Will it ever get addressed? IMO, Blizzard have had years to do so and haven't done so yet, so my answer is a bit NO.
    In this last AV weekend, I mostly played on a new horde warlock character, to gear it up for PvP this season.

    The win rate on that character was over 50%. In most games, I announced I was going to defend FW Keep, and usually got about half a dozen people to come along. This REALLY interferes with the usual alliance zerg strategy, even if most horde players continue to play as they usually do.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    The win rate on that character was over 50%. In most games, I announced I was going to defend FW Keep, and usually got about half a dozen people to come along. This REALLY interferes with the usual alliance zerg strategy, even if most horde players continue to play as they usually do.
    I can believe that. As an ally tank, I ride straight for FW but typically only a trickle follow me. Half a dozen horde defenders would totally block us and delay the ally cap of FW towers and relief hut by the minute or so needed to let the horde zerg win.

    If more than half a dozen horde defend, ally is usually crushed.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by econ21 View Post
    I can believe that. As an ally tank, I ride straight for FW but typically only a trickle follow me. Half a dozen horde defenders would totally block us and delay the ally cap of FW towers and relief hut by the minute or so needed to let the horde zerg win.

    If more than half a dozen horde defend, ally is usually crushed.
    Of course, when I played my ALLIANCE warlock that weekend, I started sending him to the SP AS at the start of the game, for alliance defensive fun.

    The best games over the weekend were hardfought resource battles.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Skarssen View Post
    If Alliance players capture the docks flag before the Horde force arrives it actually favors the Horde. Even a couple of horde players can completely wreck the glaives; if as the Horde team you can't kill the glaives then it is YOUR failure, not the map. The entire Alliance strategy relies on that first set of glaives; so easy to counter but Horde dipshits don't seem to get it.

    Seriously this is getting so stupid. Horde wins 2 out of 3 of all BGs, yet you still can't stop your bitching about AV and IoC. And Horde loses those 2 maps because they don't send a large enough force to kill the first set of glaives and they NEVER even attempt to backcap Tower Point and Iceblood Tower. Fix those 2 fuck ups and you would stop losing.

    What would make you happy? Would having a 75% win rate across all 11 BGs be enough for your fragile little feelings?
    This post is correct. It takes really very little to destroy the glaives. All stealthers camp that "glaive spot" and the winning chance just goes up.

    As for AV , usually some alliance toon also retakes the dun baldar bunkers.

    Its just the routine and mindset of players which is why we have dipshits ruin the fun. Nothing more.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by ttak82 View Post
    This post is correct. It takes really very little to destroy the glaives. All stealthers camp that "glaive spot" and the winning chance just goes up.

    As for AV , usually some alliance toon also retakes the dun baldar bunkers.

    Its just the routine and mindset of players which is why we have dipshits ruin the fun. Nothing more.
    Only sometimes i will un blacklist IoC and i usually do get it quite often. Can quite easily kill the glaives in a subterfuge.
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  6. #26
    There is no fixing to be done in IoC. The handicap in AV is relatively small.

    Silvershard Mine favors horde heavily, with Horde having immediate access to the quickest cart line. If you want AV fixed Silv M also needs a fix.
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  7. #27
    It must be nice to only have two battlegrounds that your side's random pickups have trouble winning, what with the option to blacklist two battlegrounds.

    On topic:
    To be clear, the imbalance in AV has never been choke points; it's been the map's dictation of offensive flow:
    Horde hits SHB, then Belinda & SHGY, then IWB, then heads to SPGY/DB.
    Alliance hits Galv & IBT, Then IBGY, then TP, then heads towards FWGY/FWkeep.
    This flow makes the alliance offensive push more adaptable, as the main force never has to choose to move backwards as it reinforces. Allies can then react to whatever horde does:
    If horde reinforces SHB, allies don't attack it, maybe the backcap force hits IWB instead, or maybe they push harder on offense, knowing that horde is short-manning their offensive push.
    If horde leaves SHB skeletonized, allies get to backcap it.
    If horde sends a backcap team to IBT or TP, allies at IBGY can reinforce it. The sacrifice of IBGY can hurt alliance pushes, but not as much as towers. Horde doesn't typically have to deal with allies back-capping SHGY hurting their strategy (because it pulls horde deaths further back to FWK, which allies don't want), so flexible defenders that can move to either SHB or IWB are not there to be found, which means that alliance can easily predict the force at either IWB or SHB, meaning a single backcap scout can direct backcap forces optimally.

    Each of the bunkers and towers have different architecture that allow for different sort of fighting. I think it's actually easier to defend horde towers than ally bunkers, as the flag in ally bunkers is in line-of-sight to more places, making a common horde backcap strategy (fearbomb and root/trap the outside of the tower) impossible. However, bunkers promote skirmish play that favors nearby reinforcements, while towers promote conquest play (destroying all defenders), which necessitates a larger force and a decisive victory. That means that alliance can try to whittle down horde bunker defenders over the course of a minute or two, while horde really have to eradicate all alliance in a tower.

    If horde really wanted to win decisively, the answer is not turtling FW keep. It's a 10-12+ person tower recap force that starts at IBT, moves to TP, reinforces SHB and IWB, then moves back to recap IBT and TP again, and then returns to FWK to protect Drek. Horde can't afford to keep alliance from making any progress, as that would force an alliance turtle, which (with a 25% investment in backcapping) will be hard pressed to push through SPGY/DBAS. The goal isn't to keep every resource--it's to be in a good position on Van before the alliance is in a good position on Drek. Smashing through the 10-12 defenders at IBT/TP ans sending them back to defend DB/SP with the 6-10 defenders already there means the horde forward offense still has the numbers advantage to keep gaining ground (slowly). The alliance offense, at that point, is only half their force, and sitting at the RH either deciding if they should do Drek+2 with 6-8 horde backcappers reinforcing (assuming some didn't make it). That's a tough nut to crack for 50% allies, and they'll be more likely to try to secure IBT/TP before they pull, which gives horde the necessary time to push for a Van+0 assault.


    Anyway, that's how I see it; I'd enjoy a conversation/critique.

  8. #28
    I'd like to see them address the win ratio of horde on the other BGs first.

    Despite all the whining, there's exactly two BGs that all the good horde blacklist, and I'm sure it's unrelated those are the only two that Alliance win often in. Every other BG, many of which are mirrors or close, are horde dominated by a huge amount.



    Once the rest of the game is actually available for play to Alliance, then we can worry about two BGs that precious few good horde ever spawn inside of.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    I'd like to see them address the win ratio of horde on the other BGs first.

    Despite all the whining, there's exactly two BGs that all the good horde blacklist, and I'm sure it's unrelated those are the only two that Alliance win often in. Every other BG, many of which are mirrors or close, are horde dominated by a huge amount.




    Once the rest of the game is actually available for play to Alliance, then we can worry about two BGs that precious few good horde ever spawn inside of.
    A couple of people on a forum claim they blacklist it, doesn't mean the majority of the horde blacklists it.

    Horde win the majority of SOTA matches, explain that.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by steveyboy View Post
    Horde win the majority of SOTA matches, explain that.
    Horde are better at PvEing the Demolishers than the Alliance are.
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  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Cle View Post
    IoC has no alliance favoring. Travel time to docks is virtually identical so horde should not complain, just capture the docks and get glaives like alliance.

    "qq alliance gets there 2 seconds earlier". Capture timer does not go anywhere in 2 seconds and you have to actually god forbid, PVP to get it yourself. Even if alliance gets glaives first, you are already there to destroy the glaives the moment they spawn and GG horde win.
    on my dk with the faster mounted speed I can reach the docks right as alliance caps it, so yeah it is pretty much not virtually identical traveltime wise ..... Unless the alliance side is slow they will allways cap docks before horde reaches it.
    Last edited by Bubalus; 2014-02-28 at 08:07 PM.

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