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  1. #61
    Not giving doomguard/infernal any active abilities practically forces players who wants to use their class to it's fullest potential to not spec it. The fantastic thing about pets currently is that you can pick what pet's abilities suits the fight - without any abilities the doomguard/infernal just gimps your raid's ability to handle certain mechanics and doesnt open new unique options for the talent.
    I'm okay with passive damage increasing talents but this is too braindead, especially with a level 100 talent and the only new talent tier row for an entire expansion - surely they can do better than this.

  2. #62
    You could make the talents from the DG/Infernal more defensive in nature. Something like the DG gives the lock a hand of freedom effect or a second mini (15-20%'ish dmg redux) unending resolve. That would be slightly more pvp flavor but probably wouldn't violate the "thou shalt not have pets CC" decree. It would be fun to see the infernal get some kind of darkflame root that snares since locks are the only ranged without a root of some kind. That one is more borderline but we should get it somewhere (hai worthless dogbreath of guldan) since it is otherwise standard over every single ranged elsewise.

    If blizz wants to trim spellbooks they need to do it from the spellbook, not by turning out work that is comparatively rushed/crappier when they are quite capable of doing so much better so easily.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    I still don't understand this echoing mentality I keep seeing. I've always looked at supremacy and gosac in the opposite light to the way you're making them out to be. There is almost 0 pet management on your typical encounter. You either leave the pet on assist and just go on with your business, or you put the pet on passive and sit it on the boss and then go on with your business. Neither one of those things adds active game play or any of this "management" you speak of.

    Off the top of my head the only time this entire xpac I actually did any pet management was during 25m heroic DA where we used voidlords to tank and position the small golems to free up players to do other things.
    You don't see how switching pets to best maintain uptime in different encounters, target switching on adds and managing pet utilities on certain fights and in all PVP encounters is different from having a pet you don't control at all?

    One involves managing a separate entity along with your rotation, which has a variety of distinct abilities that you have only because it's alive. The other involves remembering to summon something for 5 seconds and it has no impact in your decisions thereafter.

    Mages have more pet management than that.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by jackvii View Post
    You don't see how switching pets to best maintain uptime in different encounters, target switching on adds and managing pet utilities on certain fights and in all PVP encounters is different from having a pet you don't control at all?
    Imp always has the best up time, so if that's a problem for you its as simple as summoning the correct pet. Beyond that you either have your pet out and leave it on assist and it does its thing, or you put it on passive and set it on the boss. There is no active management there during fights. You don't need to tell your pet to switch targets, it's baked into the assist ai and even if it wasn't then we would simply go back to macroing /pet attack into appropriate spells and then it happens passively.

    Everything else you said are things you do with gosac unless you somehow forgot that gosac gives you an ability from your pet. The only pet abilities you don't get with gosac are charm (not used this entire xpac), cauterize (a tiny inconsequential HoT), and disarm (not used this entire xpac).

    You make the literal same utility decisions with gosac that you do with supremacy, the only thing that changes at all is if you have to set it on assist or set it on passive and put it on the boss. There is no game play or this "management" you speak of.

    Pvp is a whole different beast that is massively situational and not worth the discussion. It's obviously not a pvp talent.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Would be nice, but given they're wanting to tone down pet CC I can't see the Doomguard getting those.
    Well basically Spell Lock would be like an interrupt effect with no blanket silence.
    As for Sleep, I know it's in the same boat as Seduction which they want to "nerf", but hear me out:

    The main reason why Seduction is so annoying is because when put on auto-cast, the succubus will effectively focus on rotating Seduction on all enemy opponents, making this very optimal especially in fights with 5 enemies or more.
    If you disable it from auto-cast, then the problem goes away because nobody is capable of perfectly swapping Seductions on more than 3 targets while carrying on their normal rotation in PvP. I'm a "succubus hero" myself and I think I'm quite good at managing my pet while simultaneously controlling my character, and I can assure you that it is extremely hard to simply try and rotate Seduction and Fear on all off-targets in a 3s game while focusing on everything else.

    Also when you consider what BM hunters are capable of getting as a lvl 100 talent, I think it's quite fair

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    Pvp is a whole different beast that is massively situational and not worth the discussion.
    What exactly do you mean by this?
    Destruction cataclysm arena video

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenexis View Post
    What exactly do you mean by this?
    PVE is heavily scripted. Even with mob AI (I'm thinking of Kanrethad in particular here -- only mob in the game I've seen fake cast), there are simply far, far more potential situations in PVP than in PVE.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by volrat View Post
    So, from these news, I understand that the lv.100 talent simply transforms the guardian CD spells into a permanent one, no abilities will be added to the 2 pets, nothing in terms of gameplay, they just stay as a permanent "dot" to our side; this is said to keep gameplay the most simple possible.

    It is not clear, at this point, if our regular demons will be dismissed in favor of this passive ones, or we goin to keep one demon as a regular pet and the talent makes just the guardian cd permanent.

    To my opinion, this actual design for this talent is a great delusion, and a very lazy and unimaginative way to handle alvl 100 talent.
    The new Warlock talents are crap, perhaps barring Chaotic Resources.

    Cataclysm

    2.6 sec cast 1 min cooldown
    Conjures a cataclysm at the target location, dealing 10000 Shadowfame damage to all enemies within 8 yards.

    Affliction
    Also applies Corruption.

    Demonology
    Also applies Corruption.

    Destruction
    Also applies Immolate.

    Destruction: Fire and Brimstone will not be removed. Fire and Brimstone doesn't rely on a CD. It relies on a Burning Ember, and we will always have at least 1 Burning Ember. If you have 1 Burning Ember and use Fire and Brimstone + Incinerate when there aren't enough targets you will not generate any Burning Embers but lose the Burning Ember, meaning you should stick to single target rotation. Cataclysm does the same thing as Fire and Brimstone + Immolate and Fire and Brimstone + Incinerate. Cataclysm is just another button, not to mention, it has a cast time........HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA, and a Cooldown............HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA

    Demonology: Already has many AoE abilities. We have the Fel Guard's Felstorm, Hand of Gul'dan clip, Immolation Aura, glyphed Carrion Swarm.

    Affliction: Soulburn + Seed of Corruption does the same thing as Cataclysm, but guess what? Just like Destruction, Soulburn isn't limited by a CD, but by a generated resource.

    What happens if we pick Chaotic Resources?...........I'll tell you what will happen........ if we pick Chaotic Resources, we won't be able to simultaneously use Cataclysm since they both are talents from the same tier , which means that we don't need it Cataclysm. As stated, Cataclysm will be just another button.

    Doomguards and Infernals will be permanent minions? And apparently they aren't being given new abilities? The Doomguard/Terrorguard may be intended for a single target purpose, but that does not mean they should stop casting when the target they're focusing on dies. Our other minions glitch and it would be absolutely stupid to pick a talent point that gives us another permanent demon that can glitch to summon.

    Sac'ing a Doomguard/Infernal should be viable. If you pick Grimoire of Sacrifice, will you be automatically prohibited from picking Demonic Servitude? I'm assuming no. It's either Blizzard can make it so that Infernal/Doomguard Sac. is viable or they can't make it viable, there is no medium.

    The Doomguard/Infernal better provide some utility. If it's just going to DPS then.......

    Which reminds me, Infernals aren't Demons. They are demonic constructs, and they are slightly more smarter than a rock. Why would an Infernal be a guardian minion? They are f******* weak in the lore. They aren't powerful Demons....... they aren't even Demons.

    WTB Nathrezim/Man'ari Eredar Warlock/Pit Lord Guardian.

    If we can summon intelligent beings like Imps, Sayaads, Observers, Shivarra, Void Lords, and Wrathguards then we could definitely summon an Infernal without needing a damn CD.
    Last edited by VisionOfPerfection; 2014-03-13 at 02:09 AM.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by VisionOfPerfection View Post
    If we can summon intelligent beings like Imps, Sayaads, Observers, Shivarra, Void Lords, and Wrathguards then we could definitely summon an Infernal without needing a damn CD.
    If you understand the lore behind Warlocks, you'll probably understand why Warlocks can't "simply summon a permanent Infernal".

    Keeping the demon under control requires a lot of willpower from the Warlock. If the Warlock doesn't have enough mental power to keep the demon under control, it'll try to kill him. That means the more powerful the demon, more willpower will be required from the Warlock.

    Some demons are too powerful to be controlled by the Warlock. They're not a beast or any kind of Hunter pet, they're intelligent beings each with their own personality.

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