Page 1 of 2
1
2
LastLast
  1. #1

    Barrage vs Glaive Toss?

    Barrage CD - 30 sec

    Glaive Toss - 15 sec

    = 2x Glaive Toss / 1x Barrage in 30 sec.


    When I am hitting the raiding dummy with my new alt hunter, 517 item level, I get about the same damage (200k ish for me). This is only for SINGLE target. I am not hitting multiple dummies with my Barrage.

    People seem to slap me in the face when I am asking if I should pick Barrage instead to be able to aoe the boss adds too.

    What am I missing here? This question appeared when looking at a Survival hunter from Method.

    PS. I am survival spec, if that matters.
    GPU: Asus DCII 780 @ 1228 / 6700 CPU: i2500k @ 4,7 Ghz Motherboard: P8Z68-VPRO PSU: Corsair TX 850W
    CPU-Cooler: Hyper 212 EVO Ram: Corsair 2x 4gb = 8gb CL9 1600mhz

    Monitor: Asus PB278Q 27inch 2560x1440 Mouse: QPAD 5K Keyboard: QPAD MK-85 Headset: QPAD QH-90 SSD: Intel 520, 240gb

  2. #2
    Depends on boss, if you can consistently hit 3+ targets each use Barrage > GT, if not then GT. Thats the most basic look at the talent.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Pogolols View Post
    Depends on boss, if you can consistently hit 3+ targets each use Barrage > GT, if not then GT. Thats the most basic look at the talent.
    Basically this, or if there will be AoE phases consistently, so basically..

    Immerseus
    Protectors
    Galakras
    Dark Shaman
    Spoils
    Paragons (if whoring)

    Are all Barrage bosses on both normal and Heroic.

    Azortharion#2528 - Skype: azortharion - Stream - Hunter F.A.Q - YT - Hunter IRC - Twitter

  4. #4
    But since I did as much damage with GT as Barrage, isn't it a bit whatever then? Better barrage to be safe. Will do more damage if the boss is 3 mini bosses in 1?
    GPU: Asus DCII 780 @ 1228 / 6700 CPU: i2500k @ 4,7 Ghz Motherboard: P8Z68-VPRO PSU: Corsair TX 850W
    CPU-Cooler: Hyper 212 EVO Ram: Corsair 2x 4gb = 8gb CL9 1600mhz

    Monitor: Asus PB278Q 27inch 2560x1440 Mouse: QPAD 5K Keyboard: QPAD MK-85 Headset: QPAD QH-90 SSD: Intel 520, 240gb

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Iamcute View Post
    But since I did as much damage with GT as Barrage, isn't it a bit whatever then? Better barrage to be safe. Will do more damage if the boss is 3 mini bosses in 1?
    You also have to look at the fact that Barrage is channeled and Glaive Toss is instant. Meaning using Glaive Toss is going to give you more uses of your abilities throughout the fight.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Azortharion View Post
    Basically this, or if there will be AoE phases consistently, so basically..

    Immerseus
    Protectors
    Galakras
    Dark Shaman
    Spoils
    Paragons (if whoring)

    Are all Barrage bosses on both normal and Heroic.
    Norushen is also I find a very good fight for barrage, if you use the tactic of sending in 7-8 people instantly at the start. The amount of adds you have there is insane.

  7. #7
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    3,532
    Barrage will start to beat Glaive Toss in single target after you push the cast time of each Barrage below 2.0 seconds.

    It's simple math really. In 30 seconds, 2x GT requires 2 GCD AKA 2 seconds(as 1 GCD is 1 second) and 15 focus per cast. So in focus cost they are the same. However Barrage has a 3 second base cast time(2.4 sec for me at 25% or 10.6k rating) without CDs and since it only scales with Ranged haste and not attack speed(which is the Melee/Range 10% buff), you can only push Barrage below 2.0 seconds with Rapid Fire or Bloodlust(For me with Rapid Fire it's 1.7 seconds).

    Therefore Barrage takes longer to execute by .4 seconds every cycle not counting Rapid Fires/Bloodlust. However I am not sure how many of these hasted Barrages do you need on average in a fight for Barrage to be worth it over GT. But the amount haste needed(50% unbuff) is not reachable without sacrificing Agility greatly for a measly benefit of having Barrage win over GT in single target.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    Barrage will start to beat Glaive Toss in single target after you push the cast time of each Barrage below 2.0 seconds.

    It's simple math really. In 30 seconds, 2x GT requires 2 GCD AKA 2 seconds(as 1 GCD is 1 second) and 15 focus per cast. So in focus cost they are the same. However Barrage has a 3 second base cast time(2.4 sec for me at 25% or 10.6k rating) without CDs and since it only scales with Ranged haste and not attack speed(which is the Melee/Range 10% buff), you can only push Barrage below 2.0 seconds with Rapid Fire or Bloodlust(For me with Rapid Fire it's 1.7 seconds).

    Therefore Barrage takes longer to execute by .4 seconds every cycle not counting Rapid Fires/Bloodlust. However I am not sure how many of these hasted Barrages do you need on average in a fight for Barrage to be worth it over GT. But the amount haste needed(50% unbuff) is not reachable without sacrificing Agility greatly for a measly benefit of having Barrage win over GT in single target.
    I didn't think about that barrage is a channel attack /facepalm, getting late. Now I understand the difference. Was here to get a clear view at the 2 attacks. thanks.
    GPU: Asus DCII 780 @ 1228 / 6700 CPU: i2500k @ 4,7 Ghz Motherboard: P8Z68-VPRO PSU: Corsair TX 850W
    CPU-Cooler: Hyper 212 EVO Ram: Corsair 2x 4gb = 8gb CL9 1600mhz

    Monitor: Asus PB278Q 27inch 2560x1440 Mouse: QPAD 5K Keyboard: QPAD MK-85 Headset: QPAD QH-90 SSD: Intel 520, 240gb

  9. #9
    You also seems to miss that they are both doing AoE damage.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Nogz View Post
    You also seems to miss that they are both doing AoE damage.
    This. Barrage just does more AOE damage.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Alth View Post
    Norushen is also I find a very good fight for barrage, if you use the tactic of sending in 7-8 people instantly at the start. The amount of adds you have there is insane.
    Yeah but with the higher cooldown chances are you'll only have like 2 of these very strong Barrages and with some fancy positioning for when that happens Glaive Toss is much stronger and when you go in first you kinda wanna prioritize boss damage (if you don't go in first you might as well not care because it's not gonna be a good parse anyway).

    Azortharion#2528 - Skype: azortharion - Stream - Hunter F.A.Q - YT - Hunter IRC - Twitter

  12. #12
    Herald of the Titans Lord Pebbleton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Pebbleton Family Castle.
    Posts
    2,884
    I use Glaive Toss because it has no cast time.

  13. #13
    Also 1 important thing alot of ppl forget.

    Barrage scales with weapons DMG.(640% WD to MT + 320% WD to adds)
    GT only scale with AP. (437-1308 + 20% AP)

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    But the amount haste needed(50% unbuff) is not reachable without sacrificing Agility greatly for a measly benefit of having Barrage win over GT in single target.
    Actually it's not "that unreachable". With FF up you are most likely very close to 50%. On average, when I'm using Barrage, I'm usually under FF. Also, with 2set bonus and AoC RF uptime is pretty high. And when you put Stormslash in the picture, it's whole different story.

    However, having 3 targets doesn't mean Barrage won hands down. Usually you'll hit with GT at least 2 of them. All in all, if you ask me, in SoO, have Barrage "by default" on the bar, and use GT on demand (e.g. Siegecrafter where you can get 11th attack on belt under BW).

  15. #15
    Brewmaster Zaxio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Sofia/Bulgaria
    Posts
    1,498
    I use both and even use Stipid shot on Nazgrim just to screw your melees who chase that assassin
    Its depends of boss.Most of the time Glavie is superior but Barrage is your AoE brust its much more effectife on fast dying adds

  16. #16
    Mechagnome Zenora's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    In a van near you!
    Posts
    666
    Quote Originally Posted by Iamcute View Post
    Barrage CD - 30 sec

    Glaive Toss - 15 sec

    = 2x Glaive Toss / 1x Barrage in 30 sec.


    When I am hitting the raiding dummy with my new alt hunter, 517 item level, I get about the same damage (200k ish for me). This is only for SINGLE target. I am not hitting multiple dummies with my Barrage.

    People seem to slap me in the face when I am asking if I should pick Barrage instead to be able to aoe the boss adds too.

    What am I missing here? This question appeared when looking at a Survival hunter from Method.

    PS. I am survival spec, if that matters.
    I have tested barrage and glaive toss on mobs on the isle of giants and glaive toss did do more damage, also if you throw glaive toss into a pack of mobs it hits all of them going to the target and all of them again coming back so its also aoe

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Iamcute View Post
    Barrage CD - 30 sec

    Glaive Toss - 15 sec

    = 2x Glaive Toss / 1x Barrage in 30 sec.


    When I am hitting the raiding dummy with my new alt hunter, 517 item level, I get about the same damage (200k ish for me). This is only for SINGLE target. I am not hitting multiple dummies with my Barrage.

    People seem to slap me in the face when I am asking if I should pick Barrage instead to be able to aoe the boss adds too.

    What am I missing here? This question appeared when looking at a Survival hunter from Method.

    PS. I am survival spec, if that matters.
    GT is much better in single target situation. (GT scales with AP so you can do more dmg with your CDs)

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by azurea View Post
    GT is much better in single target situation. (GT scales with AP so you can do more dmg with your CDs)

    your weapon damage also scales with your ap.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Illana View Post
    your weapon damage also scales with your ap.
    No, just....no.
    AP increase the damage you deal with ranged weapons, it has no affect on the damage of the weapon. Barrage is calculated off of weapon damage not damage dealt with ranged weapons.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Illana View Post
    your weapon damage also scales with your ap.
    Come on man please use your brain.

    OT: If you have constant adds which is 3 or more (Immerseus, Norushen, Protectors, Galakras, Dark Shaman, Spoils, potentially Paragons) Barrage is better, if you have just a phase of adds (Garrosh, Sha, Malkorok) which die quite quickly then GT. GT will win in a single target fight.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •