Thread: Venom Zest

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  1. #1
    High Overlord Grayjoy's Avatar
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    Venom Zest

    ...Appears to be: "Venom Zest: Increases your maximum energy by 15. Increases your energy regeneration rate by 5% for every enemy you have poisoned, up to 3."

    Hat tip to Rfeann, our red-hatted rogue reporter for getting the scoop.

    Not *too* excited about this, as I was hoping for an AoE finisher or a cooldown of some sort, but it does change gameplay a bit. I wish it wasn't essentially venemous wounds for every spec. Combat seems like it will gain quite a bit of energy in cleave situations, though. The "theme" of the tier seems kind of ambiguous with this, shadow reflection, and DfA.
    Last edited by Grayjoy; 2014-02-25 at 08:43 AM.

  2. #2
    Legendary! Ryme's Avatar
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    I can't stop reading it as Lemon Zest and then chuckle to myself about my deadly rogue covering his blades in deadly lemons.
    I am the lucid dream
    Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh


  3. #3
    High Overlord Grayjoy's Avatar
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    Well, we have as a class been clamoring for more flavor since before I can remember.

  4. #4
    Lemon Zest sounds a cool talent. As said also by other people int the WoD talents thread, lvl 100 talents may be not final but definitely more interesting than the things we have now.

  5. #5
    High Overlord Grayjoy's Avatar
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    Yup, didn't read that thread all the way before posting this one. Feel free to merge.

    I do really like the fact that, while passive, it will have a noticeable effect on our gameplay 100% of the time. It seems a bit derivative of venemous wounds (poisoned target = energy) but there's certainly some great synergy there.

  6. #6
    its look little bit like our assa multi rupture im wondering how they will solve it in WoD.
    My guess we will get 100 enery in assa in WoD, and then +15 if venom zest specced.


    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    lvl 100 talents may be not final but definitely more interesting than the things we have now.
    farming Proving Grounds! yay
    Last edited by AseyBL; 2014-02-25 at 09:20 AM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryme View Post
    I can't stop reading it as Lemon Zest and then chuckle to myself about my deadly rogue covering his blades in deadly lemons.
    And now i have the same problem. Thanks.

    i really like Lemon Zest, specially how it plays with the other 2 talents... we really have choices depending on the situation: sustained, burst or aoe. instead of "meh, meh or mandatory"... or the 3 "meh's" that is the level 75 talents.

  8. #8
    RIP Restless blades, probably. I don't think there is any way that between talents like this and CD reduction secondary talents that it will remain in its current form.

  9. #9
    oh god i would be so happy if restless blades got removed

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Feindy View Post
    oh god i would be so happy if restless blades got removed
    why, it is one of he best abilities in the game, unless you hate to do DPS or something...

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Jdance View Post
    RIP Restless blades, probably. I don't think there is any way that between talents like this and CD reduction secondary talents that it will remain in its current form.
    Actually, in the Beta build that the press saw last week, the level 100 Warrior talent "Anger Management" was changed for Arms and Fury. It now reduces all of their abilities affected by Readiness by "x" number of seconds for every 15 rage spent. The fact that Warriors may possibly end up having their own version of Restless Blades shows that Restless Blades is likely not going anywhere.
    Quote Originally Posted by SilkDath View Post
    why, it is one of he best abilities in the game, unless you hate to do DPS or something...
    Personally, I love Restless Blades. Makes Combat a very fun spec to play at the high end. However, I have seen it argued that the downside to Restless Blades is that it causes you to do less damage outside of CDs.

  12. #12
    The Lightbringer Nalira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geckoo View Post
    And now i have the same problem. Thanks.

    i really like Lemon Zest, specially how it plays with the other 2 talents... we really have choices depending on the situation: sustained, burst or aoe. instead of "meh, meh or mandatory"... or the 3 "meh's" that is the level 75 talents.
    I hope you mean Lvl 90 talents...

    Anyway. I can see opportunities for all 3 talents and I hope they do something good with it. We really need some diversity between talents / speccs. I still hope to see Anticipation go baseline.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWindWalker View Post
    Knowing Celestalon, he both A) doesn't know and B) will nerf the spec until he figures it out while denying it ever happened.
    "Mastery will fix it."

  13. #13
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    Where does the idea that this would end in the removal of Restless Blades even spawn from? You can't have energy regeneration and cooldown reduction at the same time? Without Restless Blades there would be nothing left of combat. I don't see it going anywhere. If so they would have to come up with a completely new spec.

    Related question: Does blade flurry apply poison(s) to its targets?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Oggiva View Post
    Where does the idea that this would end in the removal of Restless Blades even spawn from? You can't have energy regeneration and cooldown reduction at the same time? Without Restless Blades there would be nothing left of combat. I don't see it going anywhere. If so they would have to come up with a completely new spec.

    Related question: Does blade flurry apply poison(s) to its targets?
    Nope, only to the main target.

  15. #15
    The Lightbringer Nalira's Avatar
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    Only non lethal with a glyph I think. I'm not sure though.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWindWalker View Post
    Knowing Celestalon, he both A) doesn't know and B) will nerf the spec until he figures it out while denying it ever happened.
    "Mastery will fix it."

  16. #16
    I like the sound of Venom Zest. I feel like rogues need more poison-esque abilities beyond coating your weapon with them.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Therougetitan View Post
    I like the sound of Venom Zest. I feel like rogues need more poison-esque abilities beyond coating your weapon with them.
    Nah, the glyph only increases the proc rate of non-lethal poisons while Blade Flurry is active. It doesn't make Blade Flurry itself trigger it to other targets, unfortunately.

  18. #18
    With a talent like this they can easily make BF to spread poisons and reduce its damage (in the end you're going to get more energy regen anyway).

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    With a talent like this they can easily make BF to spread poisons and reduce its damage (in the end you're going to get more energy regen anyway).
    Indeed, it kind of makes sense with this talent in mind.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by SilkDath View Post
    why, it is one of he best abilities in the game, unless you hate to do DPS or something...
    Most of the problems with RB aren't with RB per se but rather with the interaction between RB and AR/SB. There are two major problems.

    1) RB and AR/SB swamp everything else in the rotation. For an ostensibly cooldown centric spec combat doesn't think that much about using its major cooldowns. RB makes holding cooldowns doubly penalizing because not only are you missing the cooldown ticking but also the cd reduction. Instead of creating interesting decisions this removes them, does the boss have a high damage phase coming up in 20 seconds? In most situations it is still better to hit a cooldown on CD than save it. Similarly BG has the potential to be an interesting mechanic (shameless plug: I wrote up an idea for making BG more interesting on my blog last week) but RB takes out most of the decision making there as well. Interesting mechanics create decisions about how to use abilities for skilled players, RB removes them and that is a problem.

    2) RB and AR/SB make combat energy feast or famine that lead to 50 energy SS. Occasional resource overflow isn't a huge problem, you get a lot of procs and end up with a glut of resources, it happens but rarely enough that it isn't something to optimize around. RB and AR/SB make resource overflow a problem for combat rogues for 30-50% of a fight and trying to keep things like ability costs and resource generation rates balanced between two stages where the difference in resource gen can vary by almost 2x is impossible. RB contributes to the problem by making this resource overflow case occur much more often and by creating the feedback loop that makes resource utilization during AR+SB so important.

    Its worth noting that both of these could be solved somewhat by nerfing AR/SB rather than removing RB or some combination of nerfs to both.

    On topic: I like Lemon Zest, I think it is a better designed talents than the other two talents on the tier. It could make combat AoE a little awkward but that could be solved by allowing BF to apply poisons.
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