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  1. #1
    Immortal Chickat's Avatar
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    What paladin spells will be removed in WoD?

    I thought i would make a discussion thread about what spells we think will be going away.

    Im only going to talk about ret in this post, because thats all i play.

    inquisition may go or may stay, undecided
    i feel like seals may go
    Some hands may go
    I have a feeling at least one of our cool downs will go. Probably Holy avenger since its a talent, but who knows?

    What talents do you think they will remove/change?
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  2. #2
    Moderator Krekko's Avatar
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    I highly doubt Seals would be gone considering the level 100 talent they previewed us at Blizzcon. Plus, too staple to the class.

    I think Wings will be folded into something, or Guardian will be gone.

    I think Inquisition is gone.

    I don't feel Paladins to have much bloat. Perhaps Hammer of Righteousness will be gone, or folded into Seal of Righteousness.

    I would like to see consecration come back to Ret though, I'll fight wanting that till the end.

    Spells I think might go are blinding light, being either folded into Hammer, or repentance.

    We're not too bloated, not compared to other classes. We'll be getting lots of merging, as opposed to removal, since we have many double spells.
    Last edited by Krekko; 2014-02-28 at 06:20 PM.
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  3. #3
    "and in some cases, the game would simply be better off without them."

    That from the Watercooler makes me think Hand of Protection is going. They had to specifically make sure that you couldn't solo tank bosses in Seige by simply BoPing the tank. It was way out of hand in Throne of Thunder.

    Otherwise, we really don't have much bloat as Paladins. Most of it is an insane amount of passive, which will probably just get merged together.

    Outside of passives, stuff like Cleanse and Emancipate could be merged, or Emancipate gone with all the CC reduction.

    I'd like to see Salvation and Freedom merged. You rarely use Freedom in PvE if at all. And never use Salvation in PvP. You could merge them and really not affect the other. If the tank needs a movement effect removed, just have a healer dispel it.

    Holy Avenger/Avenging Wrath/Guardian of Ancient Kings for ret is a bit much. I could see Guardian of Ancient Kings and Avenging Wrath getting merged as they are typically used alongside each other.

    Also, we know seals are staying because they added a new talent just for a new seal. Also, a blue tweeted about it and mentioned bringing seal twisting back.

  4. #4
    Blinding light is sure to go away.

  5. #5
    You rarely use Freedom in PvE if at all.
    I know as a tank I use freedom enough that dropping threat while active would be a pretty significant nerf. Would be annoying to make another macro to cast a spell then instantly remove the buff. I use it often on Malkorak adds, Garrosh adds in phase 1, Brewmaster snare from the panda crates in spoils. That's three fights in siege alone. Also in all three instances here they are physical snares so no healers are dispelling that.


    perhaps seals. Prot passive auto attacks have a chance to heal, ret passive attacks place a dot.

    Everyone: Salv

    Prot/Ret: Cleanse

    All in all paladins are pretty lean. There really isn't much left you could remove without harming the class.
    Last edited by tuesday the paladin; 2014-02-28 at 05:55 AM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuesday the paladin View Post

    All in all paladins are pretty lean. There really isn't much left you could remove without harming the class.
    That's my thinking.

    Seals might be reworked. Justice I can see on the chopping block, or its effect being tacked to Truth with a Major Glyph. The seal we have active might change what abilities we have on our action bars. Truth, Justice, and Insight we have CS and TV, SoR we have HotR and DS. Not a fan of seal swapping, but it would pull two abilities off our bar at once.

    Inquisition stands a very good chance of being put on the chopping block. It is so easy to maintain now, that it may as well be a passive.

    Blinding Light is most likely going to be gone. It has saved my butt a few times in PvE when I grabbed more than I could handle, or accidentally aggroed extra mobs. Gave me that split second I needed to heal.

    I think AW is safe, but GoAK might get baked into it, or get chopped.

    I could see Blessing of Kings and Might being baked together, or becoming a passive aura to give us a little flavor back.

    We may have to chose between Repentance and Turn Evil with the glyph baked in.

    Devotion Aura they said was safe.

    Paladins really do have a limited number of tools, and what we do have does get used fairly often. If you notice amongst all the tweets, etc. Paladins hardly ever get mentioned. I think this is a good thing as they could just leave us alone going forward and let us continue to perform well. The down side is we get a lot of last minute changes without much feedback and we have to be buffed over the course of WoD.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by tuesday the paladin View Post
    I know as a tank I use freedom enough that dropping threat while active would be a pretty significant nerf. Would be annoying to make another macro to cast a spell then instantly remove the buff. I use it often on Malkorak adds, Garrosh adds in phase 1, Brewmaster snare from the panda crates in spoils. That's three fights in siege alone. Also in all three instances here they are physical snares so no healers are dispelling that.


    perhaps seals. Prot passive auto attacks have a chance to heal, ret passive attacks place a dot.

    Everyone: Salv

    Prot/Ret: Cleanse

    All in all paladins are pretty lean. There really isn't much left you could remove without harming the class.
    The fact that they are physical could be changed. Also, if they merged Emancipation with Cleanse and gave it to prot there would be no issue. Even so in all 3 cases the encounters can be done without freedom. Didn't even know the adds slowed in phase 1 of Garrosh. We just stack and burn lol.

  8. #8
    HotR: Removed
    HoSalv - merged with HoPurity
    Emancipate - merged with Cleanse or HoF
    Wings and GAnK to be spec specific
    Inquisition: Removed


    HoJ/FoJ may go.


    In truth, the class isn't really bloated as things stand. There are changes coming...BL will be getting a cast time most likely, for example....but bloat isn't that big an issue. Seal might be meh...but SoF (awful though it is) seems to indicate Blizzard are keeping seals. Inq could go to much joy, but would need to be replaced by some mechanism, to reward skill.


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  9. #9
    I suspect Blinding Light is gone, so is probably at least one or so of our hand spells. Turn evil is probably gone, emancipate can be removed in favor of doing some with with HoF (maybe undispellable on a ret?) or merging it into cleanse, if not then cleanse might go for non-holy.

    AW/devotion aura is probably safe, and bubble too, guardian is probably gonna go. I hope they don't cut divine protection, I'll miss that.
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  10. #10
    You would be surprised how usefull Blinding Light can be on Nazgrim HC :P
    Other than that, almost every Hand except for Salv is used in one way or another in SoO. HoP is ridiculously useful on HC Shamans, together with glyphed HoS. Freedom saved my ass on HC Malkorok and Spoils many, many times.

    The only change I can see, like others, is Guardian getting merged with Wings.

    Blessings changed into passive aura ? Bad idea. The moment you die the benefit for the raid is gone. It's the reason why my raid leader always yells for Might even when we have shamans in the raid.
    Last edited by rad586; 2014-02-28 at 02:21 PM.


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  11. #11
    I think retribution paladins work very well. Changing seals is ok, the skills/attacks are diverse, rotations are fluent, with some nice RNG pops. I don't really use the "Hand of X" which grants survivability/control, but I'm sure people out there use it for pvp and high level raids. It would be fun getting concentration back, I suppose, but I guess rets are already too AOE oriented ( not that I mind that personally)
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  12. #12
    Stood in the Fire
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    Truthfully inquisition could go and have it built in as a class mechanic. They already made it a joke to keep up why not just eliminate the button altogether. If they are really going to eliminate abilities then one you at most have to click 10 times in a fight is pretty high on the can be gotten rid of for a passive buff. Knowing blizzard though it seems too simple and will be left alone though.

  13. #13
    I'd like to see Inquisition switched with the Divine Purpose talent.
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  14. #14
    From a Ret perspective:

    Hopefully, Inquisition stays. I agree, it could use something that makes it more appealing to use, the wings of our Ancient Guardian could appear for 3sec after using it for example, or something completely different. Still, it needs to stay I think. Don't want to go back to WotLK.

    Blinding Light - Hush, go away.

    Emancipate merged with Cleanse. Can be used on others, dispells only what it dispells now as well, and incurs the cooldown. If used on self, and a movement impairing effect is removed in the process, cooldown is resetted.

    Guardian of Ancient Kings - Gone

    Hand of Salvation - Now that Vengeance is supposed to increase the threat somehow, there's no need for HoS anymore.

    Guess that's it. What I could imagine is the removal of Reckoning for Rets, but I think it can stay.

  15. #15
    They've already stated that Seal of Faith has been scrapped, for what it's worth.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Vedrenne View Post
    They've already stated that Seal of Faith has been scrapped, for what it's worth.
    Good if true. SoF was a mechanism to add a support role.

    However - that makes it worthless as a selection, it should be baseline and it would work far better adjusting the baseline SoI anyway.

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  17. #17
    Epic! Fredzilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vedrenne View Post
    They've already stated that Seal of Faith has been scrapped, for what it's worth.
    Where did they say that? Not that I'd be disappointed.
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  18. #18
    Moderator Krekko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredzilla View Post
    Where did they say that? Not that I'd be disappointed.


    NVM, Found it now. There we go.

    I didn't mind SoF, but not as a level 100 Talent.

    Still shows that seals are on the table still.
    Last edited by Krekko; 2014-02-28 at 06:20 PM.
    -Retribution, the path of the protector or mender brought to it's natural conclusion; destroying evil before the weak need to be shielded from it, and before it can wound the innocent.
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  19. #19
    I am Murloc! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    People hate Inquisition is so dumb imo, it's a 1min cd 30% holy damage increase if you look at it that way.
    Avenging Wrath is pretty much protected because we have talents that work with it and it's a very visual core thing for all paladins.
    GoAK does so much for all 3 Paladin specs, if they remove it then prot would need a new 50% shieldwall, Holy would need a major throughput cd and ret would be left sad.

    Emancipate merged with Cleanse for Ret/Prot or Ret/Prot lose Cleanse.
    Hand of Salvation could be dropped as it's use has diminished the past 2 expansions. Really hard to merge it with other hand abilities (except hand of protection) because you want to put Sacrifice or Purity on your tanks.
    Fear Undead could go but it's a strong (rather needed) pvp talent.

    I really, really want them to throw the garbage that is Light's Hammer down the can it spawned from and make Consecration a talent we can pick, make it do some healing for holydins obviously. Before you say "holy paladins don't always want to be in the spot where Consecration would be dropped". Yes, but there's a glyph that makes Consecration ranged.
    Holy Prism should do a lot more threat for prot paladins so they had some aoe snap aggro mechanics. Damage/Heal wise for ret/holy it's fine.
    ES is fine as it is for all specs, best single target talent.

    "I have a great idea, lets remove Consecration from Retribution because it's not needed!"
    one week later.
    "I have a great idea, lets make a talent; Light's Hammer. All 3 specs could need something to do aoe effects with!"

    Honestly they pooped on their leg so badly...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Krekko View Post
    Yeah, trying to find this too, can't find anything in tweets or posts ATM. Where did they say this?

    I didn't mind SoF, but not as a level 100 Talent.
    I couldn't get an answer on how SoF heal power would work with Light's Hammer but if it only works with direct heals (Flash of Light, Eternal Flame/Word of Glory) as I kinda suspect then it would be terrible. If it works with Light's Hammer then it's gonna be awesome!
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  20. #20
    Immortal Chickat's Avatar
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    If we keep any of out cc i want to keep fist. I will be very sad if we lose our stun. Its so useful not only in pvp, but i use it multiple times a day on the timeless isle.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelemar View Post
    From a Ret perspective:

    Hopefully, Inquisition stays. I agree, it could use something that makes it more appealing to use, the wings of our Ancient Guardian could appear for 3sec after using it for example, or something completely different. Still, it needs to stay I think. Don't want to go back to WotLK.

    Blinding Light - Hush, go away.

    Emancipate merged with Cleanse. Can be used on others, dispells only what it dispells now as well, and incurs the cooldown. If used on self, and a movement impairing effect is removed in the process, cooldown is resetted.

    Guardian of Ancient Kings - Gone

    Hand of Salvation - Now that Vengeance is supposed to increase the threat somehow, there's no need for HoS anymore.

    Guess that's it. What I could imagine is the removal of Reckoning for Rets, but I think it can stay.
    I would rather lose hammer spam and keep guardian tbh. I would miss seeing my guardian at my side.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ansible View Post
    I'd like to see Inquisition switched with the Divine Purpose talent.
    You mean inq in the talent tree? If that happened, id feel like everyone would just take it. Also the reason they put DP in the tree is because not everyone likes the randomness.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    People hate Inquisition is so dumb imo, it's a 1min cd 30% holy damage increase if you look at it that way.
    Avenging Wrath is pretty much protected because we have talents that work with it and it's a very visual core thing for all paladins.
    GoAK does so much for all 3 Paladin specs, if they remove it then prot would need a new 50% shieldwall, Holy would need a major throughput cd and ret would be left sad.

    Emancipate merged with Cleanse for Ret/Prot or Ret/Prot lose Cleanse.
    Hand of Salvation could be dropped as it's use has diminished the past 2 expansions. Really hard to merge it with other hand abilities (except hand of protection) because you want to put Sacrifice or Purity on your tanks.
    Fear Undead could go but it's a strong (rather needed) pvp talent.

    I really, really want them to throw the garbage that is Light's Hammer down the can it spawned from and make Consecration a talent we can pick, make it do some healing for holydins obviously. Before you say "holy paladins don't always want to be in the spot where Consecration would be dropped". Yes, but there's a glyph that makes Consecration ranged.
    Holy Prism should do a lot more threat for prot paladins so they had some aoe snap aggro mechanics. Damage/Heal wise for ret/holy it's fine.
    ES is fine as it is for all specs, best single target talent.

    "I have a great idea, lets remove Consecration from Retribution because it's not needed!"
    one week later.
    "I have a great idea, lets make a talent; Light's Hammer. All 3 specs could need something to do aoe effects with!"

    Honestly they pooped on their leg so badly...

    - - - Updated - - -



    I couldn't get an answer on how SoF heal power would work with Light's Hammer but if it only works with direct heals (Flash of Light, Eternal Flame/Word of Glory) as I kinda suspect then it would be terrible. If it works with Light's Hammer then it's gonna be awesome!
    I agree getting rid of lights hammer is a good idea. Replace it with consecration, but bake the glyph in, and make a glyph that lets you have it the old way instead.
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