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  1. #1
    High Overlord Ryuuki's Avatar
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    [6.0] Druid Changes and Discussion

    Greetings all Druids.

    With patch 6.0 now heavily in development and its public beta coming SoonTM, I thought it would be nice to have a collective place for all information concerning the Druid class. I know right now there is not much yet, but I wanted to get the layout and sources done before it starts to get overwhelming. There is also a section for general changes which apply to Druids. I have added those for the people who are not too keen on browsing through multiple places for information specific to them. Even though this collection is for all Druid specializations, I play Balance primarily, but I will try not to show any bias. You can expect me to update daily if there is new information.

    Lastly, if there is anything you wish to add or change (especially missing sources) or if you simply want to help out, please PM me


    Disclaimer:
    !! All changes are not final and subject to change. !!
    !! Changes are only as legitimate as their source. !!


    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment

    Druid Changes

    Changes to Abilities and Passives

    General
    - Cyclone can now be dispelled by immunities and Mass Dispel. [source]

    Feral
    - Tiger's Fury and Berserk will not be cut. [source]

    Restoration
    - Efflorescence is now baseline on shrooms. [source]
    - Nourish is removed. [source]
    - Wild Growth now has a 1.5s cast time. [source]
    - Rejuvenation, Healing Touch and Efflorescence have high efficiency. (high hpm, but low hps) [source]
    - Regrowth and Wild Growth have high throughput. (high hps, but low hpm) [source]

    Later on, I will also add the new talent changes, but since I think they are currently very much in a pre-alpha state. I will simply give the link to the calculator on Wowhead: [6.0 Druid Talent Calculator]
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment

    General Changes that affect Druids

    General

    - Refreshing DoT effects (Sunfire, Moonfire) will add to the duration on the target, up to a maximum of 130% of the base DoT duration. [source]
    - Spells no longer have a base damage component. [source]
    - Critical hit damage done to players is reduced by 25%. [source]
    - All roots now share the same Diminishing Returns. [source]
    - Cast time crowd control effects can no longer be made instant with a cooldown. [source]
    - PvP trinkets now grant immunity to the reapplication of the spell broken if it is a persistent effect, such as Solar Beam. [source]
    - DoT effects now no longer benefit from snapshotting
    - There are no longer haste breakpoints for DoTs.


    Itemization [source]

    - Primary stats on armor and set bonusses change dynamically based on the player's specialization.
    - Non-armor pieces might have Attack Power and Spell Power instead of STR/AGI/INT.
    - Dodge, Parry, Hit and Expertise are no longer available as a secondary stats on items.
    - New secondary stat: Readiness, which reduces the recharge time (of some) of your abilities.
    - New secondary stat: Multistrike, which has a change to duplicate your attack for 30% of the damage.
    - New secondary stat: Amplify, which increases the crit multiplier, multistrike damage multiplier and secondary stats by a percentage. [source]
    - Armor makes a return as a secondary stat on items.
    - Spirit and Armor will not be available on armour pieces.
    - New concept called Tertiary Stats, which are bonus stats of which one has a random chance (currently 10%) to appear on an item.
    - New tertiary stat: Leech, which heals you upon dealing damage.
    - New tertiary stat: Inspiration, which heals you upon receiving damage.
    - New tertiary stat: Cleave, which deals extra damage to additional targets. [source]
    - New tertiary stat: Sturdiness, which reduces durability damage.
    - New tertiary stat: Speed, which increases movement speed.
    - New tertiary stat: Avoidance, which reduces Area of Effect damage.


    Racial Abilities

    Night Elves
    - New Passive: Touch of Elune, which grants the Night Elf 1% crit during the day and 1% haste at night. [source]
    - Quickness now additionally also provides 2% movement speed. [source]

    Tauren
    - New Passive: Brawn, which provides 2% increased critical hit damage and critical hit healing. [source]
    - Endurance now instead provides Stamina. [source]

    Troll
    - Beast Slaying now instead provides a 20% increased experience gain from killing beasts.
    - Berserking now increases haste by 15%, down from 20%. [source]
    Last edited by Ryuuki; 2014-03-27 at 05:18 PM.

  2. #2
    As a tauren I like that we at least get some offensive racial and that Beast Slaying is gone from raiding.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Rioo View Post
    As a tauren I like that we at least get some offensive racial and that Beast Slaying is gone from raiding.
    I'm also cheering that Endurance actually does something that will be noticeable, I just hope it's noticeable enough (there should be lots of room since no one considers it a throughput stat, which generally causes most of the QQing). I've seen the numbers thrown around with it, and I don't know if they are pre/post-squish and may be subject to change, but it's one of the changes I've been looking forward to for quite a long time.

    Depending upon the forum, I've seen mixed reviews about Brawn. However, I view it from the optimistic point of view: Taurens currently have no throughput bonus, so it's a buff! It's basically an Agile meta sans the agility... you know, those things we used to put in our helms prior to Wrathion going all legendary on us.

    But where is my Plainsrunning?!?!?
    *Since I'm tired of reposting the link:* EH vs TTL and Hybrid Tax

  4. #4
    Well i hoping to learn what was getting cut from spells from the blog, unfortunately this was was just really general info. Hopefully, it looks like boomkins are keeping NS (they tried to cut it in previous patches) even if it's just for healing touch and rebirth. Maybe ferals can have it back for pve as well would be nice.

    Wondering if it will be faerie fire getting cut, and mass entanglement replacing entangling roots kinda like the warrior mass reflect treatment? Idk druids were pretty heavily pruned for MoP anyway, couldn't see losing many base spells.

  5. #5
    I like how Taurens are becoming a choice now for PvE and even better for PvP, that racial will be awesome for Balance.

  6. #6
    High Overlord Ryuuki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fappasaurus View Post
    Well i hoping to learn what was getting cut from spells from the blog, unfortunately this was was just really general info. Hopefully, it looks like boomkins are keeping NS (they tried to cut it in previous patches) even if it's just for healing touch and rebirth. Maybe ferals can have it back for pve as well would be nice.

    Wondering if it will be faerie fire getting cut, and mass entanglement replacing entangling roots kinda like the warrior mass reflect treatment? Idk druids were pretty heavily pruned for MoP anyway, couldn't see losing many base spells.
    I am just as curious as you to see what our new arsenal will look like in WoD; which abilities get cut and which we get to keep. Hopefully we will learn more soon.

  7. #7
    The Patient Grum88's Avatar
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    Due to the changes to haste the night elf racial seems even more useless ... Well it's not useless but it just seems so strange to have a racial change depending on the time of day...and as a guardian and balance main spec Druid I'd rather the crit increase at night because not many raid in the day. xD Also I'd be interested in a mastery change or just a way to make our current mastery more interesting (balance).

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Grum88 View Post
    Due to the changes to haste the night elf racial seems even more useless ... Well it's not useless but it just seems so strange to have a racial change depending on the time of day...and as a guardian and balance main spec Druid I'd rather the crit increase at night because not many raid in the day. xD Also I'd be interested in a mastery change or just a way to make our current mastery more interesting (balance).
    No, with the change to haste you no longer have breakpoints and the additional haste comes as a throughput stat similar to crit or mastery. You don't even know the state weights in WoD but you are already choosing crit above haste. Education ftw...

  9. #9
    The Patient Grum88's Avatar
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    Well I'm just going off current prio. Of course it could change but we don't know that yet.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Grum88 View Post
    Well I'm just going off current prio.
    Which is pointless to do, since the racial doesn't go into effect currently, you can only evaluate it based on what the priority will be in WoD, NOT what it is now.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Grum88 View Post
    Due to the changes to haste the night elf racial seems even more useless
    It would have to give negative "benefits" for this statement to be true. Seeing as currently Night Elves get jack all.

    Blizzard has outright announced that stat weights will be changed, so basing anything on the status quo will necessarily give you incorrect results.

  12. #12
    We still don't know specifics about the new DoT mechanics. This is a quote from another thread where I asked Rygarius for details. He didn't answer but we know he keeps an eye on the thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Juvencus View Post
    Can you please elaborate on the mechanic a bit more?

    I understand the partial ticks mechanic but will there still be mini-breakpoints? Like each tick is now split into e.g 5 partial ticks or each point of Haste counts towards increasing the power of the current partial tick just like intellect would do?

    Also keep an eye out for bugs like the Cataclysm mastery breakpoints.
    I suspect complete removal of breakpoints is not gonna happen as we expect it to be but we'll just have to wait and see.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Juvencus View Post
    I suspect complete removal of breakpoints is not gonna happen as we expect it to be but we'll just have to wait and see.
    Wasn't there a blue post stating the intent was there still will technically be haste levels where you get an extra tick, but anything in between gets added as a partial damage tick at the end? The end result is that there still are breakpoints where you gain or lose extra ticks, however there's still a benefit to haste in between extra full ticks since there is extra damage added at the end to compensate via a partial tick.
    *Since I'm tired of reposting the link:* EH vs TTL and Hybrid Tax

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by exochaft View Post
    Wasn't there a blue post stating the intent was there still will technically be haste levels where you get an extra tick, but anything in between gets added as a partial damage tick at the end? The end result is that there still are breakpoints where you gain or lose extra ticks, however there's still a benefit to haste in between extra full ticks since there is extra damage added at the end to compensate via a partial tick.
    Yeah but nothing is never as it seems with Blizzard. For all we know ticks could be split in 5/10 portions and then call it linear scaling.

    For example:

    Now

    *Previous Tick*|-----Useless Haste------|*Next Tick (power jump)*|--------Useless Haste-------|*Next tick (power jump)

    Disclaimer: Haste is useless specifically for the DoT, not in general

    WoD


    You could have mini breakpoints like

    *Previous tick*|---|---|---|---|*Next tick*|---|---|---|---|* (With exact jumps of power inside a tick and with the transition from one tick to another)

    or

    You could have constant scaling with Haste working like Intellect for example with the DoT formulas considering Haste as another form of spellpower with the extra benefit for extending duration as well, with every single point or Haste rating.

  15. #15
    This is how I think it might work. Disclaimer: Not a reliable source.

    Base Ticks (7):
    1 --- 2 --- 3 --- 4 --- 5 --- 6 --- 7

    Additional breakpoints (today):
    1 -- 2 -- 3 -- 4 -- 5 -- 6 -- 7 -- 8 -- 9 -- 10

    Base Ticks (WOD):
    1 -*- 2 -*- 3 -*- 4 -*- 5 -*- 6 -*- 7 -*-

    Additional Ticks (WOD):
    ♦ 1 ♦ 2 ♦ 3 ♦ 4 ♦ 5 ♦ 6 ♦ 7 ♦; where "♦" = Partial Tick...which will be added to next tick, if applicable. (first ♦ before the 1 is carry over from previous DOT)

    If we have 14 perfect ticks, normally, that's 14/7 = 100% additional DOT damage overall.
    If we have 10 perfect ticks, normally, that's 10/7 = 43% additional DOT damage overall. which means each partial tick will be worth 43%/7 ticks = 6% additional damage.
    If we have 10 ticks with 99% of the haste required to push 11 ticks, that's 10.99/7 = 10/7 + Y/7 = 43% + (99/100*X)/7 = 14.1x/100 = 14.1% of X as a partial tick. Since 11/7 = 57.14%; we should expect 10 ticks + 99% of a partial tick to be worth ... well, "almost the same" as 11... that's 42.857% + 14.142% = 56.999% additional damage (10 ticks, 99% of Haste needed for next breakpoint; 10.99 ticks basically). So, this 14.1% damage would be split into 7 ticks (base ticks), and 14.1%/7 = ~2%. 6%+2% = 8% additional DOT damage. (43%/7 + 14%/7 = 6% + 2% = 8%)

    So.... maybe this?
    PartialTick = (BaseDmg * PercHasteToNextTick / BaseTicks)
    NextTickDmg = (BaseDmg + PartialTick / BaseTicks)
    LastPartialTick = (PartialTick / BaseTicks)


    Sorry, not really focusing. Maybe I'm over-thinking. WTB Beta.
    Last edited by Cyous; 2014-03-06 at 06:15 AM.

  16. #16
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    I assume they'd implement something rather simple, like partial tick damage = (tick damage)*(time since last tick)/(tick rate). Haste will reduce tick rate but have no bearing on time since last tick, as this is just an arbitrary point in time. In fact, were you to set the time since last tick equal to the tick rate, you would get the damage of a normal tick (obviously). Therefore, this equation could be used to show the damage of every tick in any DoT set. Haste is irrelevant when we just want to consider partial DoT tick damage, as it is represented in the DoT's tick rate.

    Edit: the implication of such a system is that there is no benefit to actually getting to a haste breakpoint (ie. when the partial tick becomes a full tick), as the haste scaling here is entirely linear. I'm not sure if this was what Blizzard said in their WoD post, as I haven't read it myself.
    Last edited by Slippykins; 2014-03-06 at 08:45 AM.

  17. #17
    Pit Lord Alltat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grum88 View Post
    Well I'm just going off current prio. Of course it could change but we don't know that yet.
    It will change. Haste is getting a major makeover, which invalidates all previous stat weights. The expansion gear reset also means far less crit from intellect, which also changes things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Juvencus View Post
    I suspect complete removal of breakpoints is not gonna happen as we expect it to be but we'll just have to wait and see.
    From what I remember reading, they've not only said that they'd change it, but also said how they'd change it:

    If you have 60% of the haste necessary to reach the next "breakpoint", you get a final "bonus tick" that heals for 60% of what the other ticks healed for. If you're just below a "breakpoint" the tick will be tiny and if you're just below then it'll almost be a full tick. Right now that bonus tick is either 0% (i.e. you don't get one) or 100% with nothing in between. In WoD it can be anything from 0.01% to 99.99%. Haste breakpoints will still exist on paper in WoD, but they will have zero impact in practice as there's no actual benefit to having all ticks heal for the same amount.
    Diplomacy is just war by other means.

  18. #18
    Dreadlord Lahis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slippykins View Post
    I assume they'd implement something rather simple, like partial tick damage = (tick damage)*(time since last tick)/(tick rate). Haste will reduce tick rate but have no bearing on time since last tick, as this is just an arbitrary point in time. In fact, were you to set the time since last tick equal to the tick rate, you would get the damage of a normal tick (obviously). Therefore, this equation could be used to show the damage of every tick in any DoT set. Haste is irrelevant when we just want to consider partial DoT tick damage, as it is represented in the DoT's tick rate.

    Edit: the implication of such a system is that there is no benefit to actually getting to a haste breakpoint (ie. when the partial tick becomes a full tick), as the haste scaling here is entirely linear. I'm not sure if this was what Blizzard said in their WoD post, as I haven't read it myself.
    If they want to really remove breakpoints, that's propably the only real way to do it.
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  19. #19
    All I hope is that Balance druid will scale better with lower gear. In MOP gear scaling has been horrible (in lower item levels it has been painful to reach 60% of damage what others do).

    EDIT: gear scaling for balance has always been like that

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Juvencus View Post
    Yeah but nothing is never as it seems with Blizzard. For all we know ticks could be split in 5/10 portions and then call it linear scaling.
    We know how it's gonna work. It's been stated quite clearly at Blizzcon [and on twitter].

    || are fixed points in time, which do not change with haste. The time of cast, and the time when the HoT drops of.
    * denotes everytime the tickspeed is calculated anew,
    | to seperate ticks, i.e. time where nothing happens,

    to end up with (I left out the instant component of rejuvenation here):

    ||*|Tick*|Tick*|............................*|Tick|Partialtick||

    Where partialtick = ticksize*timesincelasttick/tickspeedoflasttick happens when the hot drops of, that is at time ||,
    and it's required to have timesincelasttick < (Durationleft - tickspeedoflasttick), other wise you just add a new full tick.
    Last edited by stormgust; 2014-03-06 at 11:08 AM.

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