New Stat Squish looks Awesome

[goblingirl]

The problem with the gear is not merely "higher ilvl for each tier", as it was before Cataclysm. The problems with the curve going hyperbolic occurred because they implemented multiple ilvls of gear *within each raid tier*, so the heroic raiders would feel they were getting better rewards than normals, and normals would feel they were getting better rewards than LFRs. As in, you didn't get multiple sets of ilvls out of Molten Core, or Blackwing Lair, or AQ40, or Naxx (original), or Karazhan, etc, etc.

They will continue to have the same problem, unless they go back to a single ilvl set for everyone, regardless of raid type. And we all know that they won't do that because the whine would be heard around the world.

If you want to see this, then look at a graph where the ilvls are broken out by raid type. You will see that it is the normal and heroic gear that's gone hyperbolic. The LFR gear has stayed relatively on a steady uphill climb from Classic gear. To describe it a different way, what you are getting out of SoO LFR is what you "would" have gotten from Normal SoO, and what you are getting out of SoO Flex is what you "would" have gotten from SoO Heroic, if LFR and Flex had never been added in there forcing the top end numbers to be higher... in a world where only Normal and Heroic raids exist. If this were still the Classic model and only Normal mode existed, then the LFR ilvl would be the top end. (You have to back that out through when LFR was added to the game in Cata.)

Removing one of the current 4 ilvls (LFR, Flex, Normal, Heroic) next xpac is going to help some, because it allows them to set the Heroic top end ilvl lower than if they had to pad it for 4 ilvls instead of 3, but the borked up curve is still going to be there. In a few expansions they will have this same problem again.

[zed zebes]

Either you're having years of progress taken away and mad about it or you realize there never was any progression to begin with and question the whole vertical progression nonsense. Curious to see how the WoW community reacts to this.

[Osmeric]

If anything, the stat squish has given them free rein to massively inflate stats within each expansion, since the inflated stats will just be squished away again come the next expansion.

[goblingirl]

If anything, the stat squish has given them free rein to massively inflate stats within each expansion, since the inflated stats will just be squished away again come the next expansion.

Well, in my example a couple posts up, I mentioned that as long as there were multiple iLvls per tier they would have to squish again in a few tiers - however, if they simply plan to re-squish every time, then lols that makes it easy huh.

Drop xpac, nerf everyone back to iLvl XXX, go. Lather rinse repeat.

[MoanaLisa]

I fail to see that it's a big deal either way unless someone is shallow enough to think that all things being relative a bigger number is somehow 'better', i.e. 100K hit against a mob with 500K health is better than a 10K hit against a mob with 50K health. It's not like everyone is going back to level 30 or anything.

[Osmeric]

I fail to see that it's a big deal either way unless someone is shallow enough to think that all things being relative a bigger number is somehow 'better', i.e. 100K hit against a mob with 500K health is better than a 10K hit against a mob with 50K health. It's not like everyone is going back to level 30 or anything.

My suggestion for those upset by smaller numbers is that they measure the size of their favorite piece of anatomy in millimeters, so it can be "larger".

[2s2p]

I know in WoD friends with varying gear levels will all be relevant and will have the ability to play together. I have friends who I play with that just quest. How fun is it for them when the raiders are one shotting everything before they can attack it.

The stat squish is such a good thing for the game. I was pretty happy when I saw the squish bar.

Well with how they are doing the item squish isnt everything getting reduced by like the same %? So in WoD, if someone just quests and plays with someone in raiding gear from a tier or two into WoD, they will still be doing way more damage then the person in quest gear.

[SL1200]

Pro squish crowd can't make a case without lobbing insults. It's quite funny. Even the moderator says you're shallow if you don't like the squish.

[Asmekiel]

I don't agree at all and I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill. This isn't a nerf at all - leveling will no longer be this disjointed process of variable item level gains. The current level of gear and stats is out of control. I started this expansion leaving Cata doing 50k dps (already huge compared to the usual 8 - 10k in Wrath) to 400k today. Continuing like that I'd be reaching over a million or more at the start of WoD. Tanks? 4k in classic, 8 - 10k in TBC, 40k in Wrath, 200k in Cata, and 1.2 million in MoP. See where those numbers are going? This is needed. Every tier and every expansion needs a larger and larger increase in power to feel like you're actually increasing in power.

Resetting numbers would be fine in a game like LoL. This is an RPG, not some MOBA.

[Osmeric]

Pro squish crowd can't make a case without lobbing insults. It's quite funny. Even the moderator says you're shallow if you don't like the squish.

Anti-squish crowd can't take accurate criticism without crying they're being insulted. It's quite pathetic.

[Asmekiel]

Anti-squish crowd can't take accurate criticism without crying they're being insulted. It's quite pathetic.

SL1200 is right though. Since the moment GC pitched the idea 2,5 years ago pro-squish people felt the need to throw insults at and make fun of the anti-squish people in almost every thread.

[jasdasm]

I don't agree at all and I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill. This isn't a nerf at all - leveling will no longer be this disjointed process of variable item level gains. The current level of gear and stats is out of control. I started this expansion leaving Cata doing 50k dps (already huge compared to the usual 8 - 10k in Wrath) to 400k today. Continuing like that I'd be reaching over a million or more at the start of WoD. Tanks? 4k in classic, 8 - 10k in TBC, 40k in Wrath, 200k in Cata, and 1.2 million in MoP. See where those numbers are going? This is needed. Every tier and every expansion needs a larger and larger increase in power to feel like you're actually increasing in power.

4k ? a fully buffed warrior could reach 16k life

[SL1200]

Anti-squish crowd can't take accurate criticism without crying they're being insulted. It's quite pathetic.

Insults is all you got Osmeric. Your arguments are illogical.

[blackblade]

Either you're having years of progress taken away and mad about it or you realize there never was any progression to begin with and question the whole vertical progression nonsense. Curious to see how the WoW community reacts to this.

Kind of a funny thing actually, because I know several players who play pretty much for the ability to hit things for large numbers, regardless of how much HP their target has.

I mean, Personally, I play for progression and killing new bosses each week in hopes of getting gear so that we can kill new bosses faster next week, really, WoW is a lot of different things to a lot of different people, and there is no facet of the game they can add, remove, or change features to that won't upset someone.

If they decided tomorrow that instead of doing an item squish, they were going to quadruple damage instead, people would get upset.
If they decided tomorrow that achievement points were going to be graded on a different scale, people would get upset.
If they decided tomorrow, that the login button was going to be orange instead of red, people would get upset.

[Karnak]

I know in WoD friends with varying gear levels will all be relevant and will have the ability to play together. I have friends who I play with that just quest. How fun is it for them when the raiders are one shotting everything before they can attack it.

The stat squish is such a good thing for the game. I was pretty happy when I saw the squish bar.

It was the same in Vanilla. UBRS geared players were fodder for my BWL geared character, including one shotting them. Quest geared characters were hopelessly far behind.

[Osmeric]

Insults is all you got Osmeric. Your arguments are illogical.

We gave the cogent and compelling arguments for the squish long ago. You don't think the squish was a good idea, or was necessary? You're just wrong. Deal.

[endersblade]

No it doesnt look awsome from the perspective of my tank bear who gets the shits nerved from 1,5mill hp to shit....
goodby progress...

I seriously am going to start copying quotes like this. A year after WoD releases, and everyone has gotten good and comfortable, I'm going to create a thread and post all of these quotes from people who can't comprehend that this makes absolutely fuck-all difference other than what your numbers look like, and I'm going to ask, "So, how badly did it nerf you? Oh? You're still end-game progressing? I thought it was a nerf and you wouldn't be able to do it?"

You, Fummockelchen, are person number 13 on my list so far. You have been quoted, and I will make the thread to call you out on it later on down the road.

I have unfortunately bowed out from playing WoW, so I won't get to see how this fares. Well, other than from posts here. But it's something I've been looking forward to, and I'm curious how it'll pan out.

[psychedelica]

can someone explain this to me. i am in all favor for a squish, i need to use addons just to see what crit i do now because its uncomfortable to watch.

however, when i level a guy from 1-90 after the squish will it be the same numbers after some time, or will it go higher and higher intill it drops down at level 90?

[Giscoicus]

We gave the cogent and compelling arguments for the squish long ago. You don't think the squish was a good idea, or was necessary? You're just wrong. Deal.

MonaLisa's comment about being shallow is in no way a compelling argument. Other arguments are, but that was not.

[endersblade]

SL1200 is right though. Since the moment GC pitched the idea 2,5 years ago pro-squish people felt the need to throw insults at and make fun of the anti-squish people in almost every thread.

Because the people you call 'anti-squish' are against it because they don't understand what it's doing. They come up with their own ideas and rally behind those, instead of understanding what's really going on.