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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Nangz View Post
    Don't you realize that leveling is the primary and most fundamental way of character progression? There is a reason we have yet to have an expansion that excludes leveling.

    One of the characteristics of MMOs is that they have grindy features. Leveling is the most basic of them and contrary to what people seem to forget, endgame is NOT why MMOs are successful.
    Then why is 90% of wow the endgame? Levelling is quite frankly completely irrelevant and the majority of the meaningful progression in WoW is through gear at max level. As for MMO's having grindy features, that's not a selling point of the genre it's one of the genre's biggest flaws. Why do you think MMO's have never made it into the mainstream gaming market despite people's love of multiplayer?

    Removing levelling would allow other more flexible means of progression to take centre-stage, and getting rid of the grind would actually give an MMO the chance to become more mainstream.
    Disclaimer: No I'm not Alliance. I reserve the right to bat for both factions thank you very much.


  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    Well, if you must know, it is because I grow tired of the same boring arguments on the front page, and love to make a splash
    AKA Troll.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    There NEEDs to be division in multiplayer, so people can see themselves progress compared to others.
    And they still would, gear=progress without separating the population.

    If there was no levels there would be:
    - bigger pool of players to raid with
    - more arena / rbg players to choose from
    - more action in end game zones

    So many pros, yet no cons

  4. #64
    denied. you can leave now

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Edds View Post
    would like to jump into pvp without having to collect every pvp piece. but it wont happen.
    arent they streamlining arena so everyone has scaled and equal gear? only RBG i think arent like this. i could be wrong and wayyyyy wrong at that. but i thought i remember reading this.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by z4x View Post
    And they still would, gear=progress without separating the population.

    If there was no levels there would be:
    - bigger pool of players to raid with
    - more arena / rbg players to choose from
    - more action in end game zones

    So many pros, yet no cons
    He didnt JUST say remove leveling. He said to remove gear progression as well, which is removing all progression other than that tallied up in your armory. Less character progression is not a good thing

    Con of:
    -no sense of progression
    -dead world outside of a couple zones

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Protar View Post
    Then why is 90% of wow the endgame?
    Cause that's where people idle waiting for new stuff?
    blah, new sig... something something

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by hrugner View Post
    Cause that's where people idle waiting for new stuff?
    It's where you do raids and dungeons and dailies, where you gear up your character etc. etc. Any idling involved is simply a flaw in the game design, not an indication that levelling is the primary means of progression. I think the boost to 90 should tell anyone where Blizzard thinks the content actually is.
    Disclaimer: No I'm not Alliance. I reserve the right to bat for both factions thank you very much.


  9. #69
    The leveling up is the reward that keeps people addicted. I can't even read the wall of text because you lack understanding of the very basics of why WoW is so popular.

  10. #70
    The Patient
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    leveling has been apart of RPG games since we played them with dice and paper, and personally i enjoy the experience. i agree that 90% of WoW is endgame raiding, dungeons and PVP whatever you enjoy doing, but leveling is apart of this process and should be and taking out leveling and gear and adding your wisdom bar is not really that different from the current system we have. . . . and really sub par gaming imo. with your system there is almost nothing meaningful to do, yeah sure i can go quest in any zone i want at any time. . . . but whats the point with your system . . wisdom is just another way of saying level . . . with each level your character gains wisdom with spells and ability's and power increases. so basically your system is the same as what we have but your not gated to the zones of your level (and far less rewarding for doing anything). Another point id like to make is that many players complain about not having new content to do already, and if you could just jump on any toon at any time and be able to do anything i doubt your going to play the same "current" content 11 times a week without getting meaningful rewards . . . as in gear. without gear there is no point to even playing another character, considering most of the vanity rewards that would replace gear are account wide anyways. so tell me. . . . what exactly does your system add to the game. . . because the ay i see it about the only thing it does is take away from a pretty successful system. Also for all you people complaining about honor gearing . . . . shit takes MAYBE 48 hours if you can actually play your way out of a paper bag . . . even if your loosing BGs so gtfo here with that bullshit whining . . . that horse has been dead for awhile now.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by RippedLife View Post
    denied. you can leave now
    The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function.

    F. Scott Fitzgerald
    Maybe, next time, you could actually add to the discussion and provide an opposing view. Opinions as simple as this are more like flame bait, and less like discussion.

    On Topic: If you dislike the idea, maybe you could actually give some examples. As for leaving, that power rests in the hands of mods, not jokes like yourself.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by cabyio View Post
    AKA Troll.
    Trolls look to get under people's skin. To piss them off and then laugh about it. My goal is to spark a conversation about something other than Pay-to-Win, lvl 90 boosts, or speculation of another dumbass fan fiction class. If you don't like my topics, feel free to avoid them. As my signature as always said, "I'm not a troll, I am just opinionated." Learning the difference takes skill.

    On Topic: This was a completely original idea compared to the screaming and shouting on page one. I was hoping to get a genuine discussion going. Some people have been adult enough to add to the conversation, even if they did not like the idea at all. Adults know how to talk without insults or resorting to buzzwords. If you object to the idea, post your objection and move on. The only person bothered by this seems to be you. There is an ignore function, feel free to use it. Better yet, if you open a thread and see my name, maybe use some self restraint and leave the thread.

  12. #72
    So your suggestion is to further butcher the RPG part of this game by removing character levels and character progression? Blizzard's done enough in that department to last a life time with the removal of weapon skills, talent trees and other features for the sake of convenience. I think the game you're looking for is GW2.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by lunchbox2042 View Post
    So your suggestion is to further butcher the RPG part of this game by removing character levels and character progression? Blizzard's done enough in that department to last a life time with the removal of weapon skills, talent trees and other features for the sake of convenience. I think the game you're looking for is GW2.
    So your idea of immersion is tedious training, tedious trees, and non-essentials just to feel like an MMO? I'm sure hunters would gladly give up a bag slot and go back to using ammo/arrows. That up close kill zone with no ranged ability will just make them happy campers. Maybe rogues would like to go back to farming the mats to make the poisons to carry around and apply to their weapons. While we're at it, let's make mounts take up a bag slot again. No more mount tab to access your mounts. you keep your favorites with you.

    Believe it or not, your nostalgia has gotten the better of you.

  14. #74
    I like this idea. Not for WOW since you can't change it, but for a new kind of MMO it's a cool concept. Level gating stuff is fine really, when the game suits it (and when leveling is fun). But this open world sandbox MMO concept is a cool idea.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Asthreon View Post
    Or you know, you could just go play another game that already has these systems in place and stop trying to make people agree with you in turning WoW into a piece of shit?
    I agree with this. I hate how people always want to change things for their own preferences, which often times don't mean "better for the game and majority of people" and instead mean " I just don't feel like leveling, so pander to me please."
    When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.

  16. #76
    Let me get this straight. What you are proposing is completely removing the element of leveling to improve your characters abilities and signifigance of improving your character through the steady aquisition of more powerful gear, in a game that is literally designed around the fact that leveling and getting new gear are the two core mechanics of character development?!?

    You do realise that that is practically like trying to improve a game like Killer Instinct by removing the abilities to preform insanely stupid combo attacks, which is pretty much the core gameplay mechanic the game is designed around.

    A WoW where your character never gains in power, and all your gear is pretty much completely cosmetic would last for about 2 weeks, and then everyone would drop it like a hot rock because there is no "carrot" there to keep the interest of everyone other then the obsessive compulsives who must do everything. The explorer types would bail pretty fast when they realised that nothing ever changes, the achiever types would bail even sooner, when they realise that there is absolutely NOTHING in the character progression system that allows them to feel like they have actually achieved anything.

    A game where literally EVERYTHING you ever run into is always the same level of challenge would get borring, not to mention extremely irritating REALLY fast. I mean, players used to hate the fact that running through a low level zone could still aggro mobs that were 20 levels below you which could still daze you off your mount. Can you Imagine how much rage you would experience in a WoW where you NEVER outleveled ANYTHING. Where every single zone will always be a pain to travel through because the mobs are always equal level to you? It would be novel for all of about a week, then you would rapidly be traveling into breaking keyboards in frothing rage territory.

    I hate to point this out, but no MMO game with a flat plane of character development will ever last. Even City of Heroes, argueably the best system out there for a game with no real "loot", still had a definate character power progression and something approaching a basic loot system to up your character's power as that character grew.

    Also, your new WoW would still require SOME kind of leveling system, unless you expect to also completely remove talent trees and something like 80% of the abilities every class has. I mean, can you imagine a fresh character trying to wrap their head around playing a Priest when they start at level 1 with 45 abilities in their spellbook?
    Last edited by Surfd; 2014-03-04 at 12:14 PM.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    I've denied nothing. Nor have I acknowledged this was a bad idea. This idea was fun to conceptualize, and even more fun to drop on page one. I was just amused by how little attention something of this magnitude actually received. As for looking stupid, I leave that to people who just jump into threads, contribute nothing to the topic at hand, and base their entire comment on an insult. I know... the irony.
    People probably aren't giving it attention because they are used to your routine.

    But this would severely limit WoW, or most games run time. People would get bored very quickly, until said game was just basically a a "niche within a niche" game.
    When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    I instead mean " I just don't feel like leveling, so pander to me please."
    I have paid 90 boosts coming. Not feeling like leveling is no longer a concern. This was just a branch out from that perspective.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    So your idea of immersion is tedious training, tedious trees, and non-essentials just to feel like an MMO? I'm sure hunters would gladly give up a bag slot and go back to using ammo/arrows. That up close kill zone with no ranged ability will just make them happy campers. Maybe rogues would like to go back to farming the mats to make the poisons to carry around and apply to their weapons. While we're at it, let's make mounts take up a bag slot again. No more mount tab to access your mounts. you keep your favorites with you.

    Believe it or not, your nostalgia has gotten the better of you.
    False, you're comparisons are off. you're comparing simple quality of life issues with a very core part of the game. For progression hunter had to carry extra weapons and literally BAGS FILLED WITH AMMO. Thats a design flaw, while having a "tedious" leveling system isn't.
    When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    I have paid 90 boosts coming. Not feeling like leveling is no longer a concern. This was just a branch out from that perspective.
    Then, if your problem is fixed, by all means, stop making posts about it.
    When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.

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