Thread: Item squish

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  1. #1

    Item squish

    Hey guys.

    Just saw some of the numbers that was posted on the front page right now.

    Was anyone else hoping the item squish hit us a bit harder then that?

    Personally i was hoping that the 10k range for a spell was just about the absolute maximum we would see this expansion.

    Oh i guess its not really that big of a thing, and its coming anyway so thats something at least!

  2. #2
    Stood in the Fire Deztru's Avatar
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    The problem is that if they squish us too much the low level game suffers.

    Like a fresh level 100 toon has ~100k hp, and the increase from 90 to 100 has to be higher than a steady increase over the leveling.

    If they implement a harder squish would a level 1 have ~10 hp?

  3. #3
    Scarab Lord Wrathonia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deztru View Post
    The problem is that if they squish us too much the low level game suffers.

    Like a fresh level 100 toon has ~100k hp, and the increase from 90 to 100 has to be higher than a steady increase over the leveling.

    If they implement a harder squish would a level 1 have ~10 hp?
    Level 1-60 will be untouched by the stat squish on gear. They will be affected by the loss of base health/damage, but with better scaling it shouldn't make a difference. The stat squish really starts at each raid tier since that is where the exponential growth hit hardest.

  4. #4
    Legendary! Thelxi's Avatar
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    It looks like we will be going back to cataclysm numbers pretty much.

  5. #5
    Brewmaster dacoolist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thelxi View Post
    It looks like we will be going back to cataclysm numbers pretty much.
    No no, Wrath Numbers. The squish is hitting much harder than just last expansion numbers.

  6. #6
    At least in terms of damage it looks more like wrath, Ofcourse depending on weather the 30k spell was early expansion or late expansion

  7. #7
    The Patient Elondre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dacoolist View Post
    No no, Wrath Numbers. The squish is hitting much harder than just last expansion numbers.
    Nope, it will be cata numbers, remember the interviews, level 91 gnome tank got 63k.

  8. #8
    The Patient Blitzdoctor's Avatar
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    Health is at cata numbers, but other stats seem to be at wrath numbers. I've read somewhere that health scales differently.

  9. #9
    If the graph provided in the blog is precise, we're returning to Cataclysm numbers. It confirms reports from previews (for comparison to Wrath, recall that only certain classes were reliable for shattering Ignis constructs with 5K crits).

    All that mincing of words from Celestalon about context, and it still looks like we're stuck with triple-digit stat values on gear. How I want to be wrong.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Celarent View Post
    If the graph provided in the blog is precise, we're returning to Cataclysm numbers. It confirms reports from previews (for comparison to Wrath, recall that only certain classes were reliable for shattering Ignis constructs with 5K crits).

    All that mincing of words from Celestalon about context, and it still looks like we're stuck with triple-digit stat values on gear. How I want to be wrong.
    What is the issue with triple digits stats ?

    There needs to be a bump in power at max level otherwise we would feel weak. The item squish is not a 1 time thing, it can be done every 2 or 3 expansion to keep numbers in check while still giving a sense of progression.

  11. #11
    Mechagnome Jeffyjimbob's Avatar
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    I just hope they keep doing it every (few) expansion(s). As cool as it would be hitting for 4megadamage, the game feels a bit ridiculous to me when numbers climb this high. Maybe I'm weird.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Elondre View Post
    Nope, it will be cata numbers, remember the interviews, level 91 gnome tank got 63k.
    .@elibenatar123 WoD changes the health formula; you can't compare health to evaluate the squish. Compare damage instead.
    https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...54971904540672

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Deztru View Post
    If they implement a harder squish would a level 1 have ~10 hp?
    Nope. You don't understand how this works. They didn't touch stats prior to level 60 (or possibly 70) at all. The squish was for 70-90 (or maybe 80-90, I forget) wherein the scale of stat growth increased by far too much rather than sticking to the linear path it had before those levels. They could crush us all the way down to tanks having 20k HP and a level 1 would be uneffected.
    Praise the Quest Writers for they give life to otherwise boring expansions.
    I was wrong about Blizzcon 2014 having nothing interesting to show off: There's a Robot Monk!

  14. #14
    There are several issues with why the item squish is needed.

    1. The servers suffer from such high numbers. It's an extreme technical issue that puts strain on the servers.
    2. Just like the chart shows, things will start to get so out of hand that balancing will literally become impossible.
    3. 'The ability to feel powerful' This one always gets me. Why do big numbers make you feel powerful? You're still able to kill the mobs, you're still able to kill bosses, and now you're able to go back and kill Illidan, LK, Deathwing, etc. but with lower numbers. If anything being able to do it with lower numbers means you should feel more powerful. Also it's not like the 15% damage to mobs on say one strong spell crit is going anywhere, the numbers are just reduced, again to help server wide and balancing issues.

    Item squish is needed, I would love for it to go somewhere in between TBC and Wrath honestly, and for Blizz to not squish the HP. If you want people to do your old content, then don't squish it for soloability (yes it's nice and lel powerful) but it makes the game suffer as a result.

    For example: We have just been squished to TBC Numbers, 10k HP, 2k damage. Illidan has 5.8 mil health. Now yeah you could go in there and fight him on your own because the massive difference in level, but it would take forever. So why not find a group of people to go in there, you know, be social in an MMO for a change? Or hell actually use that scaling technology Blizzard.

  15. #15
    I would really liked to go back to numbers like +11 int, 13 sta, +20 spell power etc

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by dacoolist View Post
    No no, Wrath Numbers. The squish is hitting much harder than just last expansion numbers.
    Cataclysm numbers. At level 91, a tank has 67k health. By level 100, you're looking at 100-120k health.

    Those are Cata numbers.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Servasus View Post
    Cataclysm numbers. At level 91, a tank has 67k health. By level 100, you're looking at 100-120k health.

    Those are Cata numbers.
    Those are extremely low end Cata numbers, that's like fresh 85, at best. By the last raid tier I don't see it progressing like Cata did with some Tanks having half a mil.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Servasus View Post
    Cataclysm numbers. At level 91, a tank has 67k health. By level 100, you're looking at 100-120k health.

    Those are Cata numbers.
    And YES I understand how the fucking stamina is being changed. But you DO need to compare the health, even if it is gear based. If I can only do 3k dps (Those were beginning Wrath numbers for the average player) and someone has 100k health, it's going to literally take forever to kill them.

    The damage CAN'T be that much lower than the health in terms of where it was in previous expansions. If tanks have 100-120k health, then we will most definitely see Cataclysm damage as well.

    Not to mention, if you just fucking watch the videos that have been posted, you can clearly see largish cata numbers being pumped out.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by HalfBakedCake View Post
    Those are extremely low end Cata numbers, that's like fresh 85, at best. By the last raid tier I don't see it progressing like Cata did with some Tanks having half a mil.
    By the last raid tier meaning SoO? You mean the raid tier where my Heroic level tanks went from 750k health to 1.2M health?

    Yeah, not a large jump AT ALL. /sarcasm

  19. #19
    Legendary! anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Servasus View Post
    And YES I understand how the fucking stamina is being changed. But you DO need to compare the health, even if it is gear based. If I can only do 3k dps (Those were beginning Wrath numbers for the average player) and someone has 100k health, it's going to literally take forever to kill them.

    The damage CAN'T be that much lower than the health in terms of where it was in previous expansions. If tanks have 100-120k health, then we will most definitely see Cataclysm damage as well.

    Not to mention, if you just fucking watch the videos that have been posted, you can clearly see largish cata numbers being pumped out.

    - - - Updated - - -



    By the last raid tier meaning SoO? You mean the raid tier where my Heroic level tanks went from 750k health to 1.2M health?

    Yeah, not a large jump AT ALL. /sarcasm
    How the fuck are you going to compare CATA HEALTH when there are 100 levels of base HP gain. The base HP / per level is getting overhauled HEAVILY.

    That has nothing to do with gear stats. Nevermind they said accessory slots will be like trinkets and have secondaries only.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2014-02-28 at 05:10 PM.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Recom View Post
    What is the issue with triple digits stats ?
    That the squish won't have nearly the psychological benefit it might have were smaller, leaner numbers possible; that's all.

    There's no conspiracy to all the mild disappointment from players. A lot of people actually like a "back to basics" aesthetic. If that weren't important, Blizzard wouldn't also be consolidating abilities.

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