1. #1

    Raid DPS, advice and tips.

    My guild is currently at 10/14 heroic, we recently took a break for a couple of weeks to get our heads back straight.
    Before the break we had trouble with low dps and was part of the reason for the break.
    After our first raid back the same thing is happening and it's a great concern to me as I really like the people in this guild and have no plans to ditch them, but I would also like to progress with these people.

    Here is a link to our last logs, just to show you the concerns

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/7...?s=8371&e=8880

    Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated, I'm really only looking to help them get better.

  2. #2
    Dunno much about any of the classes except priest.

    Hes talented power infusion which is poop.
    On fights where there are lots of adds he should take twist of fate (15% more damage for 10 seconds after damaging something at less than 20% health) I'd take this for protectors / galakras / malk at a minimum, better priests could advice on others. That way you can abuse ToF to keep it rolling.
    On other fights the procs from divine insight would be better.

    Not dps related but prot palas EF uptime is pathetic. 11% of protectors HC and a fight where it is godlike (malk) it was 35%.

  3. #3
    speaking from lock dps specifically he looks to be doing fine.. hes shadowburning all adds and havoking the boss which is great, good chaos bolt uptime, and hes keeping dots up. as for adds, my general rule of thumb is if they dont live for more than 10 seconds, no reason to put a dot on them, and ya ur spriest does need ToF. he might wanna change to FDCL for thok, i hear mindspike tends to be decently effective.

  4. #4
    your rogue should be at least 100k dps higher, given his gear.
    200k is pretty bad at 575, ours do around 340k with the same ilvl.
    (don't ask me how to rogue though, no idea there)

    your hunt should also be upwards of 300k, it's the single best class for this boss, mechanics wise.

    and if you're single tanking it, like it seems you do, your dk should be higher than 300k as well, our war does 400k with some switches and the same gear.

    overall, your active time seems to be on the low side (80% for some) and this means you're losing a lot of opportunities to actually DO something, even with the kiting getting him out of range I was at 99.4% on our last kill.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Vagabond View Post
    your rogue should be at least 100k dps higher, given his gear.
    200k is pretty bad at 575, ours do around 340k with the same ilvl.
    (don't ask me how to rogue though, no idea there)

    your hunt should also be upwards of 300k, it's the single best class for this boss, mechanics wise.

    and if you're single tanking it, like it seems you do, your dk should be higher than 300k as well, our war does 400k with some switches and the same gear.

    overall, your active time seems to be on the low side (80% for some) and this means you're losing a lot of opportunities to actually DO something, even with the kiting getting him out of range I was at 99.4% on our last kill.
    OP's statement "Hi our dps is low, any advice?"

    You "Your dps is low"

    Golfclap.

  6. #6
    Mechagnome -Raer-'s Avatar
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    Your Rogue is failing at fundamentals. Slice and Dice uptime should be 97%+, but for Malkorok (a relatively patchwerk fight for melee) he has 73%. He is overusing Feint, if your healers are having that much trouble, they need to step it up as well. 20% uptime on Feint is a bit much, especially since he's not using Elusiveness. I've found Leeching Poison to be the weakest talent in that tier, at least for raiding. It's fine for solo play, but not for raiding. Burst of Speed, not a fan of this either. There is no reason to need such constant movement speed, and it's wasting energy that could be used on DPS.

    Terrible use of Killing Spree, use it on cooldown before Adrenaline Rush/Shadow Blades. Actually, only using it 2 times over a 5:30 fight is just unacceptable. I see the same misuse of KS in other fights as well. Not using Vanish as a DPS cool down, marginal gain here. Not fully utilizing Anticipation, to push Bandit's Guile into Deep Insight faster. Not using Tricks of the Trade on anyone except the pull, if used on cool down, it's a ~3% increase for the receiving target.

    Overall, I'd say that your Rogue just needs to read the abilities or a guide, because they really don't know what they're doing. You can have them PM me on here, I would offer my Btag but you guys are EU.

    That being said, it looks like he does some jobs that require sacrificing DPS, which is a big plus for your raid. But when it comes to raw DPS potential, he's falling very short.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Mavarax View Post
    My guild is currently at 10/14 heroic, we recently took a break for a couple of weeks to get our heads back straight.
    Before the break we had trouble with low dps and was part of the reason for the break.
    After our first raid back the same thing is happening and it's a great concern to me as I really like the people in this guild and have no plans to ditch them, but I would also like to progress with these people.

    Here is a link to our last logs, just to show you the concerns

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/7...?s=8371&e=8880

    Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated, I'm really only looking to help them get better.
    I can comment on your Hunter a bit.

    So, from armory,

    Professions:
    Engineering (445, no tinkers used) - zero contribution to dps
    Mining - zero contribution to dps

    (I guess you could forgive professions, but to me, any guild in heroics, no matter X/X would want/require this)

    Tier 16 2/4 bonus - He has neither, the 4 set is a HUGE dps increase and should be considered 100% mandetory, I don't know if he's been amazingly unlucky with loot drops or is thinking warforged offpieces are better. Also missing out on more Rapid Fires etc.

    Reforging/Gems/Enchants - If he optimized this he would gain 5.86% haste, cap expertise (important), nearly 4k more agi through procs, and just under 100 more agi itself. - Also not using the right leg enchant.

    No legendary meta - he is using a standard meta, he has the cloak so he has the meta - for reference on my last Nazgrim kill my Meta proc did 3.7M damage, or 4.8% of overall.

    So, onto the log:

    Explosive trap: waste of a GCD, may seem good if you aren't resetting trash, but it did 0.01% of dps.
    Serpent Sting: 81% uptime, that's not the worst in the world, there is a lot of target switching, but could be improved.
    AMoC: Cast twice over 8:28, looking at my own log on nazgrim, I had two AMoC's over 4:12.
    Barrage: Could be personal choice but I'd go with Glaive Toss, the add's are all over the place, interestingly he used Glaive on Norushen instead of Barrage.

    Pots: He's using virmens bite but only once, I'm not sure if logs pick up pre-pots so I may be wrong, if not, he should be pre-potting or remembering to use a second pot later on.

    It's quite hard for me to think because it's 3am and I'm almost exclusively SV apart from belts - for ref, my ilvl is 574 (572 during boss) and I did 321092.2 on 25H Nazgrim on Thursday, he is 571 and did 210727.2, 110k more isn't from 1 extra ilevel.

    Also, only one pet is listed, other Dire Beast, so he isn't using Stampede, which is just a bit important. Kill Command isn't on CD.
    Good luck!

    But he really needs to fix his meta, do some reforging and changing of enchants, oh, and cap expertise...
    Last edited by Toiran; 2014-03-02 at 02:46 AM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Toiran View Post
    Explosive trap: waste of a GCD, may seem good if you aren't resetting trash, but it did 0.01% of dps.
    Also, only one pet is listed, other Dire Beast, so he isn't using Stampede, which is just a bit important. Kill Command isn't on CD.
    They're obviously using the strat of holding DPS during defensive stance. Totally reasonable to put down traps in that case. What else are you doing to do with those GCDs? Kill Command has a 6 second cooldown. As for Stampede, he's using the glyph on his armory, so all the pets will of course be listed as 1 pet.

    The other criticisms are valid, but be more worried about the fact that he casted a Kill Command on average every 12.7 seconds on Sha of Pride despite a 99% active time. He could have 2 maxed professions and be reforged totally correctly, but would still do balls for DPS if he doesn't hit abilities on cooldown.

    Also, I'm kind of confused as to why the OP thinks that taking a break would make people suddenly start to do more dps... if anything I'd think it would make them do less because they'd get rusty?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by announced View Post
    speaking from lock dps specifically he looks to be doing fine.. hes shadowburning all adds and havoking the boss which is great, good chaos bolt uptime, and hes keeping dots up. as for adds, my general rule of thumb is if they dont live for more than 10 seconds, no reason to put a dot on them, and ya ur spriest does need ToF. he might wanna change to FDCL for thok, i hear mindspike tends to be decently effective.
    OP is the lock btw, I think he knows he is doing good enough, it's the guys with 570+ gear which does 200k dps who are the issue

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by -Raer- View Post
    Your Rogue is failing at fundamentals. Slice and Dice uptime should be 97%+, but for Malkorok (a relatively patchwerk fight for melee) he has 73%. He is overusing Feint, if your healers are having that much trouble, they need to step it up as well. 20% uptime on Feint is a bit much, especially since he's not using Elusiveness. I've found Leeching Poison to be the weakest talent in that tier, at least for raiding. It's fine for solo play, but not for raiding. Burst of Speed, not a fan of this either. There is no reason to need such constant movement speed, and it's wasting energy that could be used on DPS.

    Terrible use of Killing Spree, use it on cooldown before Adrenaline Rush/Shadow Blades. Actually, only using it 2 times over a 5:30 fight is just unacceptable. I see the same misuse of KS in other fights as well. Not using Vanish as a DPS cool down, marginal gain here. Not fully utilizing Anticipation, to push Bandit's Guile into Deep Insight faster. Not using Tricks of the Trade on anyone except the pull, if used on cool down, it's a ~3% increase for the receiving target.

    Overall, I'd say that your Rogue just needs to read the abilities or a guide, because they really don't know what they're doing. You can have them PM me on here, I would offer my Btag but you guys are EU.

    That being said, it looks like he does some jobs that require sacrificing DPS, which is a big plus for your raid. But when it comes to raw DPS potential, he's falling very short.
    Is this a general statement across the board or just Malkorok, because we do make him clear bubbles on cloak cooldown so I don't really expect him to be doing well on this fight. If we could get some criticism on other fights and maybe the fundamental problems, would be nice.

  11. #11
    What about that Moonkin, hu?

  12. #12
    Mechagnome -Raer-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mavarax View Post
    Is this a general statement across the board or just Malkorok, because we do make him clear bubbles on cloak cooldown so I don't really expect him to be doing well on this fight. If we could get some criticism on other fights and maybe the fundamental problems, would be nice.
    Slice and Dice 67.7 % Protectors
    Slice and Dice 89.9 % Sha of Pride
    Slice and Dice 57.1 % Dark Shaman

    There isn't much to say, other than he needs to push that button more. Part of it comes from understanding your incoming combo point flow. If you Eviscerate now, will you have enough energy/combo points to maintain Slice and Dice? Another part is utilizing Anticipation to bank combo points for when you need them, and understanding when to use an offensive finisher at a lower number of combo points to get the Anticipation charges sooner (which means you already messed up). This is where things get more in depth, but the bottom line is to just ALWAYS have it up.

    Something else I just noticed, on Dark Shaman, he has 100% uptime on Blade Flurry (it doesn't show up in the buffs because he had it active before the fight and never turned it off) but he is using Rupture. This is a very big waste, as if you're actually utilizing Blade Flurry to cleave, Rupture doesn't copy damage via BF like Eviscerate will. What I'm thinking is that he also doesn't know to toggle Blade Flurry on/off as the bosses/mobs move in and out of range.

    Feint 15.6 % Sha of Pride
    Feint 20.4 % Dark Shaman

    And on Dark Shaman, he was standing in the Toxic Mist. Not sure if your tanks had the boss in a bad spot where he couldn't avoid it, but still. This high uptime on Feint is just mind boggling. Do your healers struggle on these fights?

    Like I said before, have your Rogue go read a guide on Icy Veins (or insert random website here, as I don't keep up with basic guides) and work toward a better SnD uptime, using KS on CD before AR/SB, and keep up the jobs that he's doing for your raid.

  13. #13
    1) a) Toxic Mist isn't the swirling tornado - its the standard debuff you get (the purple flask on your debuff icons, gradually growing in danger).

    1) b) Looks like they possibly split the bosses, which is more of a concern for the blade flurry - if the bosses are split, that's pretty much a single target fight.

    2) Burst of Speed is godlike for Malkorok HC (clearing - it stacks with engineering boots, and it removes the add debuff to get to the pools for melee soaking).

    Another pointer, which is quite a goodie - uptime on Revealing Strike. That should also be rivalling 97%+ due to its bonus of extra combo points & finisher damage buff, but it isn't - its around 67% ish.

    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=84617/revealing-strike

  14. #14
    Mechagnome -Raer-'s Avatar
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    If you're clearing on Malk, you'll have sprint every time you have cloak, so BoS is pretty much useless.

  15. #15
    No it isn't - it removes the Add speed slow which means you can get everytime to the puddles without having to call for a freedom or a tiger's lust - that's not useless.

    The speed isn't the reason to take it, the snare removal is.

    Edit: And the speed boost stacks with the engineering boots - try it, you go rather fast.

  16. #16
    Mechagnome -Raer-'s Avatar
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    I suppose... insert my lol10man comment here.

    But really, this is a thread about maximizing DPS, and BoS is high on that list of "get rid of".

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    OP's statement "Hi our dps is low, any advice?"

    You "Your dps is low"

    Golfclap.
    What more can he really say? Give a detailed breakdown of every persons spec and their priority system gemming/reforging/enchanting etc?

    That's what OP really needs to do. If he's really serious about progression, he needs to tell them to step up their game and practice or even recruit better DPS.
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by get big or die mirin View Post
    What more can he really say? Give a detailed breakdown of every persons spec and their priority system gemming/reforging/enchanting etc?
    The point of the thread is so that people can look at the logs and offer coaching tips where the dps can improve. That's what he could do. Maybe the fact that 10 people did it could have clued you in instead of making you ask what has to be one of the dumbest questions of all time.

  19. #19
    Player dps depends on desire to improve themselves - every 0.05% of dps counts.

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