How should we act on Russia's invasion of Ukraine?

[Deleted]

But you are acting as if the same things apply to the Ukraine, as if the majority of the people there feel oppressed about the Russian troops coming in. How do you know if the protesters represent the majority of the Ukraine? There is really no comparing what happened to Poland to what is happening now in the Ukraine.

I know that situation is quite different, I was just replying to other posts.

Elections are coming, it should be voted, but not resolved by inviting Russian troops. If Russians would come just to defend Crimean people from rioters, why would they need mi-24 attack choppers?

[Deleted]

I know that situation is quite different, I was just replying to other posts.

Elections are coming, it should be voted, but not resolved by inviting Russian troops. If Russians would come just to defend Crimean people from rioters, why would they need mi-24 attack choppers?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26405635

Looks like its all sliding into the shit heap.

[Deleted]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26405635

Looks like its all sliding into the shit heap.

No its great news it means putin lost the ukraine but won crimea.

[namelessone]

I know that situation is quite different, I was just replying to other posts.

Elections are coming, it should be voted, but not resolved by inviting Russian troops. If Russians would come just to defend Crimean people from rioters, why would they need mi-24 attack choppers?

And they need to "defend" them FROM WHAT? Ukraine is not moving troops to secure crimea. They aren't deploying swat against crimean protesters. There has been some clashes between pro-ukraine and anti-ukraine protesters, but both groups are LEGITIMATE CITIZEN OF CRIMEA, it doesn't warrant military intervention.

Putin is repeating Anschluss scenario, and the world is responding in exactly the same manner - cowardly hiding behind "not our business" curtains. Yeah, it sure worked fine last time around.

[Syro]

Like Russia reacted when murica invaded Tabulistan, Irakistan, Libanistan and the others. Also there s kind of little oil left in Ukraina, so i dont know why you would come here anyway

[Deleted]

Passive mentality = slave mentality

I would say, do something (anything) or get invaded by russians in the future.

[mizeri]

US stay out of it, let Europe handle it

[Stormwolf64]

I feel brain rot growing from each time i visit this damn forum.

[Orlong]

Why put options for people from Third Worlds? People in Third worlds rarely have electricity let alone internet access to take this poll.

Personally I say let them fight their own fights. Im tired of my country always interfering in other country's issues. Shouldve never gotten involved with Egypt, Syria, Libya, Congo, or any of the other recent riots we responded to.

[wowsucks]

We shouldn't, oh wait, we should support and help Russia delegitimize Nazi elements in the new Ukrainian government before it gets any worse, oh wait, we've been supporting these violent elements all along cuz only they made the revolution possible in the first place. Nevermind then

[Xires]

1) as an American, I do not want us to suddenly start playing world police again. On the flip-side, I will be all in favor of a joint UN decision based on clear evidence of what's coming out of Ukraine.

2) For a non-military solution, I'm in favor of allowing all countries to offer medical volunteers, living supplies and food to help out along the borders to evacuate citizens and to keep those alive within the situation.

Other than those two things, I would not be able to make more of a decision beyond that without any clear evidence of massive human rights violations and/or crimes.

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I actually use Transformers when describing the change in American Politics.

Today it goes like this:

Democrats = Autobots
Republicans = Decepticons
The Tea Party = Starscream ^_^

You need to be smacked for insulting the Autobots like that. Nothing truthful about that party whatsoever...just look at the current administration...thank god you didnt say Obama was Optimus Prime because then we would need to make a petition to have you flogged in public.

OT: I think the worlds population is out of control anyway...maybe its time for a WW3.

[Deleted]

Why put options for people from Third Worlds? People in Third worlds rarely have electricity let alone internet access to take this poll.

Personally I say let them fight their own fights. Im tired of my country always interfering in other country's issues. Shouldve never gotten involved with Egypt, Syria, Libya, Congo, or any of the other recent riots we responded to.

By third World he means nations that are not sided with the West or the Russians.

[Faladrath]

It is, however, the most effective.

How did you get to this conclusion? Stopping any import til Russia would shut russia down and they would have to retreat to lift the ban, no lives lost for no reason..

[Stir]

Pfft. Russia is not afraid of EU. Besides them and the EU are not stupid enough to start a nuclear holocaust. No one would win.

The 'no one would win' sentiment is obviously untrue. In every conflict, there is a winner. The question is: Is winning worth it?
Also: It's true that Russia is not afraid of the EU. That is a problem. It should be. The EU has the ability to win any armed conflict with relative ease... But everyone knows that the EU is a pacifist pansy. Every time the EU says anything, the country or alliance they say it to will just shrug and go 'whaddaya gonna do; write us an angry letter again?'
This is absolutely devastating for the EU's diplomatic position. If nobody takes you seriously, then nobody's going to give a shit about what you want. Putin could as well just steamroll the Ukraine, all the while thinking 'Well; the EU won't like it, but hey; it's not like they'll do anything other than wag their fingers at us.'

Military intervention will do nothing but inflame the situation. Do people really want to see Ukraine split into two over this? Do you also think Russia would allow EU combined forces right on its doorstep without saying anything?

The EU should react yes. But the EU already made it worse by getting involved to begin with to push their own political agenda in Ukraine. The current state of the world right now seems to be. Potion of population not happy with government.. ok lets burn shit until we get what we want.

This is a situation that needs to be resolved by Ukraine and Russia independently. Not through getting everyone and their nan involved. The minute the world starts getting involved in this is when it will all rapidly slide downhill. I can guarantee you Russia will not give up those military bases. They have fought three wars for them so far and i wouldnt guarantee they wont do it again

I could argue that the honus is on Russia, for this one. Supporting a completely corrupted ruler and all that isn't really all that great. The opposition got support from likeminded countries, of course. But that's something completely different than just attempting to keep the exploiter in place because you're friends with them.

Also: It's politically and economically sensitive in a geographical sense. Russia wants to create a Eurasian Union to counter the European Union, but unlike the European Union (which was an idea that pretty much grew out of the Benelux and then EEC), Russia wants to create this union as an attempt at expansion. Economically force poorer nations to join up, because they can't survive the onslaught otherwise, and with Putin at the helm. It's not exactly creating a trade union (like already exist), but a ploy at financial conquest. There are very good reasons the situation is so tense at the moment, but if the EU again just turns its back on the situation, things might get really nasty for a lot of people, and Putin will again be vindicated as the powerful leader that the West is so afraid of.

[Shakadam]

Sanctions? Please show me what those sanctions would actually consist of. Mainland Europe is quite dependant on Russian natural gas exports, any kind of significant economic sanction could easily be countered by Russia simply shutting off the natural gas that flows into Europe, which would be devastating.

This is Georgia all over again. No one is daft enough to suggest direct military conflict with Russia (and rightfully so) over a region where neither the USA nor EU have any significant interests. And just like with Georgia, any kind of sanctions are hard to impose on Russia because it's not some bullshit country like Iraq where you can threaten them and block their banking systems etc and the whole country crumbles. As I said, EU needs Russian resources and economic sanctions on Russia would hit EU hard as well, which is something it REALLY doesn't want what with the current financial troubles and all. USA can't do much on its own, yeah they can deploy some military forces in the vicinity but it's empty threats and Russia knows that.

The only thing we can do is simply stand by and watch, hope that Russia and Ukraine can work out some sort of agreement, and make sure it doesn't turn into a wider conflict.

[Deleted]

We have weight. We should use it. Russia cannot afford conflict either, and it's a sad sight that this invasion is considered safe and positive for Russia.

[Nakura Chambers]

Response depends on Moscow's actions. If it's posturing? Then sanctions and snubs for Putin; closer ties to the Ukraine.

But if Ruskie tanks are gonna roll anywhere that's not Crimea, it means a moderately free and liberalizing country is under attack. If you want security for your own country, you don't let that kind of thing happen.

Exactly, this is why NATO is always putting down the ambitions of expansionist powers (see the Persian Gulf War). We learned that appeasement doesn't work with World War II.

[Jackmoves]

It is. I've never understand what's the ultimate reason for such massive amount of russophobia among the anglo-saxons.

Im not anglo-saxon but my country have had decades of Russia spying, deploying subs to our territorial waters (whiskey on the rocks being one of the more known incidents) and generally just being an annoying neighbour. Doesnt mean you dislike russian people though, but disliking the way the country has acted and acts... yeah not that weird. The Soviet Union was a bully, modern day Russia moves in the same direction.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_submarine_S-363

Other incidents
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedi...rine_incidents

The*submarine hunts*or*submarine incidents*were a series of several incidents involving foreign*submarines*that occurred in*Swedish*territorial waters during the*Cold War, more specifically during the 1980s. In this time, there was intensive debate and speculation in Swedish media about the possibility of*Soviet*submarine infiltration of Swedish*territorial waters.

While there had been earlier incidents involving foreign submarines (as seen below), the incidents normally referred to in this context are those that followed the sensational stranding of the*Sovietsubmarine*U 137*deep inside Swedish waters on October 27, 1981. The Swedish Navy responded aggressively to these perceived threats, increasing patrols in Swedish waters,*mining*and electronically monitoring passages, and repeatedly chasing and attacking suspected submarines with*depth charge*bombs, but no hits or casualties were ever recorded.

Reports of new submarine sightings and television imagery of Swedish Navy helicopters firing depth charges into coastal waters against suspected intruders became commonplace in the mid-to-late 1980s. They remain, for many Swedes, one of the iconic images of the Cold War and of the Swedish relation to the Soviet Union—for some underlining what was considered a major threat to Swedish sovereignty, while for others illustrating the tense and, in the view of some, paranoid atmosphere of the time. However, the reports of these incidents are not uncontested, and an intensive debate emerged early on. This debate unfolded somewhat, but far from exclusively, along leftwing/rightwing lines, and became tied up with the larger issues of relations to*Moscow*and Swedish*armed neutrality. The Soviet Union consistently denied that it was responsible for violating Swedish waters, and claimed that the U 137 had only crossed the border because of navigational faults.*Russiatoday maintains this stand. While the submarine sightings subsided with the fall of the Soviet Union, the debate about these events has reemerged in the 1990s and 2000s (decade). They have been the subject of a number of government investigations in Sweden, and continue to attract media attention.

[Asmodian]

Ukraine should be split. West / East / Crimea. Everybody should be happy then.

This. Ukraine always was very divided nation. East and West hates each other.

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And they need to "defend" them FROM WHAT? Ukraine is not moving troops to secure crimea. They aren't deploying swat against crimean protesters. There has been some clashes between pro-ukraine and anti-ukraine protesters, but both groups are LEGITIMATE CITIZEN OF CRIMEA, it doesn't warrant military intervention.

Putin is repeating Anschluss scenario, and the world is responding in exactly the same manner - cowardly hiding behind "not our business" curtains. Yeah, it sure worked fine last time around.

1 March - 200 neonazi attacked Kharkov in the night. Where was your protection?

[Lenin]

Nato/USA must not intervene.
Ukraine is not part of Nato or America.