How should we act on Russia's invasion of Ukraine?

[Dreknar20]

So you are not opposed to using an invading force to change a country's borders and violate their sovereignty?

if it benefits your country why the hell not?

[Themerlin]

Westerner here.

I vote we attack and stop Russia immediately.

On what basis?

Because you are a westerner? So am I...I think it is the worst idea conceived.

Warmongering 2.0

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Why the hell are you guys talking about Syria and other off-topic? Is there at least one political discussion here that does not eventually turn into catfights about US, Middle East and insults?

No.

Because it is all related.

Not including those topics would be like seeing only the chin of a prominent painting like this one....

[Nalam the Venom]

you mess with russia.. you gonna get crushed.. lesson here is don't mess with russia
If russia wants it's toy back then russia is gonna get it's toy back..

[Themerlin]

Libya was not important to the US. We just made sure that the UK and France did the job properly

And yeah, we manipulated you. But honestly, we were going to attack Syria without a UN resolution anyway, until David Cameron bungled the political job in the UK and Obama incompetently pressed the political case here at home.

US international relations is exactly that..."we manipulated you".

Domestic relations in the US is this...

[Thrive]

How do you feel on this issue?




Note: For the purpose of this poll, westerners are anyone from anglo-North America, NATO or European Union Europe, anglo-Australasia, US-aligned Far East or Israel. Easterners are from non NATO/European Union Europe, or non US-aligned Asia. Third world is Africa or South America.
Note2: Perhaps some people want to go in and help Russia conquer Ukraine. I don't know. I find this unlikely, but if you think this way; my apologies for not adding it.

Sanctions, vote them out of the permanent nations in the UN if they continue to advance on the Ukraine, and military intervention if they plan to annex/puppet the state by re-implementing that scum of a "president" that caused this.
Russia is breaking their treaty, ignoring the calls of almost all the world for them to cease, and honestly showing that they plan to expand their influence once again with their actions in the middle east. Putin is a dictator, and Russia needs to be shown they can't just do as they please so they don't just keep on doing this. Our inaction during the Georgia Crisis was a disgrace, and if we stand inactive here, we will be letting history repeat itself.

[Themerlin]

Sanctions, vote them out of the permanent nations in the UN if they continue to advance on the Ukraine, and military intervention if they plan to annex/puppet the state by re-implanting that scum of a "president" that caused this.
Russia is breaking their treaty, ignoring the calls of almost all the world for them to cease, and honestly showing that they plan to expand their influence once again.

I would rather have a Russian puppet in Ukraine, than an American one.

That scum of a president was not directly the cause of this....lets not be that naive. Look towards Putin, and the political lackies in the US (not Obama).

[Thrive]

I would rather have a Russian puppet in Ukraine, than an American one.

That scum of a president was not directly the cause of this....lets not be that naive. Look towards Putin, and the political lackies in the US (not Obama).

And therein lies your naivety. Putin is a dictator, his sending troops to the Ukraine before actually getting permission is further proof of this, and the past actions of Russia prove this is not a one-time deal. In this case, apathy is not an option.
And no, the president was obvious not the sole cause of this, nor was he actually wanted considering the protests, but he was a catalyst for this situation.

[Skroe]

US international relations is exactly that..."we manipulated you".

Please don't tell me your one of those haplessly naive internet utopians who wishes we could all just get along.

All international relations is manipulation at some level. Every country will act within their own selfish interests. Russia invading Ukraine is actually entirely logical from their point of view. It's a terrible affront to international norms and very much against out interests, but for them, it makes complete sense.

[Themerlin]

And therein lies your naivety. Putin is a dictator, his sending troops to the Ukraine before actually getting permission is further proof of this, and the past actions of Russia prove this is not a one-time deal. In this case, apathy is not an option.

You think that a western puppet would be better than having direct relations with their neighbors?

Ukraine would degrade to a husk of poverty under western hands, and in the long run would only serve to further destabilize the region. I know that is the actual goal of western countries, not to benefit the people of Ukraine, but to serve their longstanding gains to unify all of Eurasia to the benefit of major players, such as Germany, England, France, etc.

[Rend Blackhand]

The situation saddens me but I don't fancy World War 3 soooooo unlucky, Ukraine.

[Thrive]

You think that a western puppet would be better than having direct relations with their neighbors?

Ukraine would degrade to a husk of poverty under western hands, and in the long run would only serve to further destabilize the region. I know that is the actual goal of western countries, not to benefit the people of Ukraine, but to serve their longstanding gains to unify all of Eurasia to the benefit of major players, such as Germany, England, France, etc.

Then you have no clue what you're talking about. I'm not going to discuss politics with a conspiracy theorist who thinks being controlled/puppeted by a dictator is better than having independence that is protected by the west, which is what the Ukraine had. Make no mistake, they were not a puppet, they where individual.

[Rumred]

Whatever is done it needs to have teeth maybe not direct military action but cut the throat of the Russian economy the best we can would work. This is no different then Hitler demanding territory to "protect ethnic Germans" in the Sudetenland I have no faith that Putin will stop if he gets what he wants here. In five years what will he want then? Will he be satisfied when he rebuilds the USSR or will he want to rebuild the Russian Empire? The more he takes the stronger his hand the next time he wants something. I know the US has pulled some shit but that doesn't excuse putins land grab.

[Themerlin]

Please don't tell me your one of those haplessly naive internet utopians who wishes we could all just get along.

All international relations is manipulation at some level. Every country will act within their own selfish interests. Russia invading Ukraine is actually entirely logical from their point of view. It's a terrible affront to international norms and very much against out interests, but for them, it makes complete sense.

I know for a fact we can get along.

But when we have "giants" with a gift in one hand, and a knife in the other, how can we ever reach that ideal? The whole world knows that the US military/economic mechanism is based on manipulation, yet we abstain from reality and remain compliant to the core.

With globalization, the world is getting smaller, our former conceptions of nationalism are thinning, and that stress will manifest itself soon enough.

Build enough fear, and people eventually express it.

[Thrive]

Whatever is done it needs to have teeth maybe not direct military action but cut the throat of the Russian economy the best we can would work. This is no different then Hitler demanding territory to "protect ethnic Germans" in the Sudetenland land I have no faith that Putin will stop if he gets what he wants here. In five years what will he want then? Will he be satisfied when he rebuilds the USSR or will he want to rebuild the Russian Empire? The more he takes the stronger his hand the next time he wants something. I know the US has pulled some shit but that doesn't excuse putins land grab.

He has no reason to stop so far. We didn't do shit during the Georgian Crisis, and we are likely going to let him off with a slap off the wrist here. It's not as if he doesn't have enough bad blood to continue either, and reasons are easy to make up.

[Deleted]

I know for a fact we can get along.

But when we have "giants" with a gift in one hand, and a knife in the other, how can we ever reach that ideal? The whole world knows that the US military/economic mechanism is based on manipulation, yet we abstain from reality and remain compliant to the core.

With globalization, the world is getting smaller, our former conceptions of nationalism are thinning, and that stress will manifest itself soon enough.

Build enough fear, and people eventually express it.

Haha, okay, and the other guy was the one too young to get how things worked

[Themerlin]

Then you have no clue what you're talking about. I'm not going to discuss politics with a conspiracy theorist who thinks being controlled/puppeted by a dictator is better than having independence that is protected by the west, which is what the Ukraine had. Make no mistake, they were not a puppet, they where individual.

We can all point fingers and call the other on their nonsense, but saying that Ukraine was individual...I would look into their history a bit.

Any Ukranian can tell you what influence Russia had on their political system, just like any Canadian can tell you how much the US influences their political system.

It is obvious.

[Thrive]

I know for a fact we can get along.

But when we have "giants" with a gift in one hand, and a knife in the other, how can we ever reach that ideal? The whole world knows that the US military/economic mechanism is based on manipulation, yet we abstain from reality and remain compliant to the core.

With globalization, the world is getting smaller, our former conceptions of nationalism are thinning, and that stress will manifest itself soon enough.

Build enough fear, and people eventually express it.

As respectable as that ideology is, it has been proven time and time again to be wrong. I'd maybe lean with it being let be if was the first time this situation had happened, or if Putin wasn't such a dictator, or if Russia wasn't so militant, but the situation is all of that, and refusing to act will simple let the very fearmongering dictators you speak of gain more power.
If you fail to see that, that is your own issue.

[satimy]

Response to 9/11. Un resolution, that Russia voted for.


Done under an acknowledged bi-lateral relationship with the government of Pakistan. We drone terrorists, because they let us, and they deny it and curse us out for it. Our drone bases we use in Pakistan, by the way, are BASED IN PAKISTAN AT PAKISTANI BASES.


UN Resolutions, that Russia voted for, including the occupation, which Russia also voted for.


The sactions we approved are international in nature, with the EU, and China and Russia. Russia voted for these sactions.


Cold war shenannigans on our part. We're not in this business anymore.


You mean intervening in two humanitarnian crises so slavic peoples Russians are sympathetic to didn't mass murder muslims?
It's the very picture of legitimacy.


Please do. You're 1 for 6.

Afghanistan in the 1980s
Kosovo
Iran 1953
Panama
Nicaragua
Iraq (90s)

[Thrive]

We can all point fingers and call the other on their nonsense, but saying that Ukraine was individual...I would look into their history a bit.

Any Ukranian can tell you what influence Russia had on their political system, just like any Canadian can tell you how much the US influences their political system.

It is obvious.

Influence has nothing to do with individuality. Direct control and the puppeting of a state does, however.
Canada in itself is also very passive, which is simply because the United States enough muscle for the two of them. Our influence extends that far and that far only. They have extremely differing polices than the US does. Of course not relative to Russia or other countries, but still very different.

[Themerlin]

Haha, okay, and the other guy was the one too young to get how things worked

You are from France, ...

How many Muslims live in your country? Are you getting along with them? Is there a present crisis in France regarding immigration?

Pense un petit peu avant que tu veux me rendre comme un imbecile.

Infracted: Please post respectfully and in English