(Westerner) Military intervention on the side of Ukraine.
(Westerner) Sanctions or other actions against Russia.
(Westerner) Do nothing, Ukraine is not our problem.
(Easterner) Military intervention on the side of Ukraine.
(Easterner) Sanctions or other actions against Russia.
(Easterner) Do nothing, Ukraine is not our problem.
(Third world) Military intervention on the side of Ukraine.
(Third world) Sanctions or other actions against Russia.
(Third world) Do nothing, Ukraine is not our problem.
(Russian) Pull completely out of the state of Ukraine.
(Russian) Restore Viktor Yanukovych as president of Ukraine.
(Russian) Annex Crimea and other Russian territories and leave the rest of Ukraine alone.
Last edited by Skr; 2014-03-03 at 01:45 PM.
I'm from the EU and I'm fucking sick of the Western world meddling in businesses that's not their own. Just leave them be. Russians are a bunch of stubborn mules, and interfering with their business and trying to push them back by using diplomacy will make them even more angrier.
A civil war is brewing, methinks.
For all what happened is, that a loophole was used.
I am tempted to say, that this is an old practice, the US and some others love to use for a long time. The fact when Germany finally received a peace treaty shows this mechanism pretty good. Might not be so known to people that live in parts of the planet where war barely or rather never raged. But Germany was for the longest time after WW2 officially occupied by the Allied Nations, and there was only a cease fire situation. When was Germany finally released from the status of occupation?
September 12, 1990.
Another thing, bugging me here in the thread...
People throwing the term Nazi around as if there's no tomorrow.
I truly believe that there's a confusion going on between terms. Most of the time the tern Nazi is used, when in fact the correct term would be Fascist.
The difference? The difference is rather small, but very significant. Whereas for the most part identical ideologies, a Nazi varies on one aspect extremely.
Hitler's Nazis believed in the superiority of the Aryan race. Being white of color doesn't make one a member of the master race. For that, there needs to be a rather flawless pure-bred German heritage and background.
It's very safe to say, that the majority of the Neo-Nazis aren't anywhere near the Nazi doctrines. They would not pass the filter standards of the Nazis at all.
They are fascists, and assholes with less than 2 cents worth of brain at their disposal.
This is not to defend the Nazis at all. It's just to put it into perspective. Wearing Nazi symbols doesn't make one a Nazi. It makes one just an incredibly stupid and dangerous idiot fascist.
I hate both equally, Nazis and Fascists.
As for those who are calling for military actions.. Which, as the thread shows, are for the most part Americans.
I'd like to give some food for thoughts.....
It's a rather "normal" angle of approach for people, who have zero grasp on what WAR actually means. Despite of the fact, that the country was/is involved in military conflicts throughout it's entire existence, with no more than 25 years of real peace in between, one thing Americans cannot grasp, and that's the reality of War. Yes, millions of Americans served in the military over the time, and have some idea about war. But other than on 2 occasions, which both are way far in the past already, they've never had to experience the destructive nature of War. For most Americans it's but a term of something surreal, they cannot develop any rational relation to. The wars always raging thousands of miles away from them. They never had to experience it in their own streets.
9/11 or even less Pearl Harbor, both are hardly examples of what war means. Both were just super small incidents. Small enough that they are "business as usual" in other regions, that experienced real war.
That's the reason why most nations are extremely hesitant with war actions. They know the hardships that come along with war. The uncertainty when and if a bomb blasts your home to rubble. Going to work, never knowing whether you make it there in one piece, and not knowing whether everyone is still alive at home, when you get off work.
Now I said, millions of Americans served in the military, and many of them experienced war. They know what it means, to some extend.
They've however always experienced it from the offensive side. They were the ones feared by the natives. They too never had to put themselves into these people's shoes. And yet still... Countless(?) of those soldiers came back home to their protected, unharmed, far from danger and safe homes one day, and they were/are scarred for the rest of their lives. The gruesome reality of war hunts them in their sleep.
Might ask some of those men and women, maybe they can tell you more about demanding military actions...
This country is way too trigger happy, way too happy to go to war, at any opportunity that presents itself.
Europe doesn't want war. Europe was ridden by wars, times and again. Europeans know what war actually means. There's barely any European that hasn't lost a civilian family member to war. Barely a country that hadn't rebuild towns or entire cities. We are tired of losing families, tired of rebuilding.
Even the Kosovo Conflict would have been handled differently, if it was for the Europeans alone. Yugoslavia was too close to comfort, too close to our doorsteps. There too, it's been the USA forcing the military actions and interferences.
It's time to stay the fuck out of other people's business.
Was that an appeal to emotion? Probably..... But war has everything to do with emotions. War is fueled by emotion.
And to point out the emotions of those affected by war is therefore valid.
"The pen is mightier than the sword.. and considerably easier to write with."
The first girl I kissed was from the Ukraine, she was so cute! And she showed me pictures of her sisters and friends back home... wow.
I really wish a war to happen.
My life is so boring,wish i could do something intresting
Anger, hatred, fear, they are weapons of war. The tools of a Warchief!
Robbel is already dropping like a rock. Russian markets got hammered with a 10% drop. They are about to get slapped with heavy sanctions. G8 is DEAD. That means fuck you Russia bombs over Damascus very soon. Putin wants to rebuild the Soviet Union well he gets to deal with all the other fun stuff.
I Hope the Crimea was that important because he just set Russia back 20+ years economically. Bond percents for the US are also dropping like a rock as investors are fleeing Russia and investing in the dollar as a safe haven.
Last edited by Puremallace; 2014-03-03 at 02:46 PM.
What has been made by QQ can be unmade by QQ!!!
doing nothing only emboldens putin to push harder
he has his eyes set on canadian territory in the arctic so they can drill for oil
you think this makes him more arrogant or less?
they want that region of the ukraine because of its resources
not out of the "goodness of their heart"
Replace "Nazi Germany" with "Fascist Russia" and I dont really see a difference
Last edited by Ehrenpanzer; 2014-03-03 at 03:05 PM.
I am on the us side for most things, but in this case i am having trouble agreeing with the administration. What would we in the US do if Canada had nukes, had a revolution, and English speaking Canadians were being attacked by French speaking Canadians, and were begging to join the US. There would be a strong case to intervene both for humanitarian and security reasons. And after Iraq, on the other side of the world, although granted not annexed, seems hypocritical.
the same we did when usa invades other countries for oil : nothing at all