Sub or Assassin?

[lolcatabeta]

I currently got back into PvP and Ive been playing around with both assassin and sub in bgs and arenas. Im a casual PvP'er for now atleast.

Anyways, I noticed that both speccs really had its ups and downs, but my mage friend (Hes a sick mage) told me that assassin was stronger.

So is it? Im currently sub, but I would love to go back to assassin cause I like it alot more. I play both specs fairly equally.

[pkm]

Well your friend hasn't seen sub play properly if he thinks assassin is better...

[lolpve]

Your mage friend is obviously a total noob because assassination is the worst spec currently, by quite a long way. Sub is the only real top-tier spec we have at the moment.

Assassination is very simple to play so it's ok for people new to the class but the sooner you learn to play sub the sooner you will learn to be a good rogue.

[Deleted]

Dont listen do those. They read somewhere that sub is best and they just reproduce it further.. They arent totally wrong, sub is the most used and the strongest on higher rating thanks to control dnace gives to the spec. Altho on lower rating or even with lower gear, you can play either of them pretty well. It really just depends on your playstyle, and what can you make better sinergy with your partner as.

[Elbrondane]

If you are playing with a mage, sub will be better. Sub will be basically be better overall due to the scaling of sub. It scales hard so now that pvp gear is quite a high ilvl, you will be able to get a nice burst through when you need to and it gives a lot of control.

[Gnu]

It also depends what you like. If you enjoy sub go for it. If not play assassination.

I forced myself to play sub at the release of MoP even if I really don't enjoy the spec. And I hated it... At some point I decided to switch back to assassination which I've been playing for a very long time and it works much better for me. A lot of people find it dull but it all comes to personal preferences.

Granted I am a very casual PvP player and do mostly BGs and low rated arenas with a resto shaman.

[Baracuda]

TBH I think they could merge both specs and the rotation would still be super easy. I mean subtlety and assassination should complete each other, not compete.

[pkm]

Dont listen do those. They read somewhere that sub is best and they just reproduce it further.. They arent totally wrong, sub is the most used and the strongest on higher rating thanks to control dnace gives to the spec. Altho on lower rating or even with lower gear, you can play either of them pretty well. It really just depends on your playstyle, and what can you make better sinergy with your partner as.

Read? How about play?

There is no question that sub is the top spec but for fun purposes just play whatever.

[Battlebeard]

I would go Assassination. A lot more fun and also better imo.

Subtlety needs a lot of macros, because Shadow Dance is a damn joke.

Stealth Bar and Shadowdance Bar are the same, which makes the specc terrible. Who needs sap in dance for instance...

[Artorius]

I would go Assassination. A lot more fun and also better imo.

Subtlety needs a lot of macros, because Shadow Dance is a damn joke.

Stealth Bar and Shadowdance Bar are the same, which makes the specc terrible. Who needs sap in dance for instance...

Best part of reckful 3 video is a fucking Shadow dance sap during a DK's Death grip. FUCKING EPIC.

[OMGITSDOT]

Subtlety is definitely the best. The play style is not for everyone though and if not played correctly you are not going to do much for your team. Assassination is easier and more forgiving. I also find Assassination better with 1v1 fights. I usually spec Assassination if I am solo queuing randoms and Subtlety for everything else.

[Mac223]

Who needs sap in dance for instance...

You can blind -> dance -> sap the blinded person.

[Packing an i5]

Sub is just an overly complicated playstyle. Who wants to deal with the amount of macros and extra binds required. Dont bother playing a rogue unless your highly skilled already it has the the highest skillcap in the game if you play as Subtlety which you must in any rated pvp if you want to get above 1500 mmr.

Im nothing special but I have played so long and take the time to learn other classes abilities+ play over 1000 games in a season as mutilate the spec ive played for 6 years now that I can get near 1800 mmr with it but to get any higher you would need competent partners willing to play with a gimp. Rogues even as sub are squishy and the rogue can be easily peeled unless he pops cloak with dance which gives u a minute to train him into the ground with magic or use a physical CC like disarm to kill his dance.

A mutilate rogue is like a weaker feral druid or warrior just no reason to play it, offers no utility that comes anywhere close to shadow dance. IF sub became crap and couldnt kill plate targets again mutilate would get played but would still be trash compared to feral/arms warrior and sub would still be king for utility even if it did crappy dps.

It works for 2s with a healer, not having positional requirements and being so much easier to play can sometimes be enough to outdo a sub a rogue. A sub rogue whos average making mistakes is not as good as a mutilate rogue tunneling making far less mistakes but at high mmr the tunneling playstyle required for mut isnt viable.

Maybe if vendetta wasnt so bad it could work. IF vendetta was a direct buff to the rogue rather than a debuff mut would be a lot better but it would still need much more uptime than the other specs. The energy regen is rng and tied to sticking to your target to apply rupture. You need to sit on a target with the envenom buff, snd and rupture rolling to do any damage and its often hard to get to sit on someone so comfortably.

Worst part is envenoms crappy damage for an attack that ignores armor and use to hit so hard its sad seeing how low it hits now and plate armor negates alot of dispatch's damage.

Some find mutilate dull, hell a lot do I do not heck maybe I just DO Enjoy its simplicity or its just what I am use too.

IF you decide to stay mutilate use BOS and paralytic poison for the most uptime and control on your targets, multi rupture on occasion and never let it fall off at least 1 target. Be damn sure your ready to burst when the time comes because vendetta is so clunky.

Maybe for RLS mut wouldnt be so bad but what warlock would waste his time?

Sub outscales any other spec because it gets far more agility our main stat and they get to ignore 50 percent player armor with every dance or opener.

Find weakness is way too strong in pvp it makes sub benefit greatly from resets from an offensive standpoint and the other specs do not.

Resets use to mean Overkill for assassination but thats been taken from us.

[lolpve]

Dont listen do those. They read somewhere that sub is best and they just reproduce it further.. They arent totally wrong, sub is the most used and the strongest on higher rating thanks to control dnace gives to the spec. Altho on lower rating or even with lower gear, you can play either of them pretty well. It really just depends on your playstyle, and what can you make better sinergy with your partner as.

Sub is the best spec at any rating, it doesn't matter. Assassination simply isn't competitive right now in any meaningful form of pvp. It has nothing to do with playstyle or synergy...

The only situation where assassination is better is if a rogue is horribly bad (ie keyboard turning and clicking) in which case he should just reroll to another class like paladin or DK. Some people may fool themselves into think sub isn't good but it's because they are very bad players, which is why I say they should play sub so they can learn how to improve as rogues.

[Deleted]

The only reason why I stayed assassin for so long was because I levelled two of my last rogues as such. Having levelled the newest rogue as subtlety 50-85, I now dig subtlety much more. It is just fast burst on demand with Shadowdance, and the keybinds become second nature if you have done it long enough.

[Miko]

Subtlety rogues own Assassination rogues pretty easy. A sub rogues mastery buffs thier on demand burst. Sub offers 2x the control and survivability of Assassination. The key to the whole thing is what a previous poster listed as a negitive, the more key binds you have to make as Sub is pretty much why its better... More things to do, more ways to lock someone down bomb them and shit on them.

[Packing an i5]

its been sub or bust since 2010. Thus why I quit playing my rogue. Id play combat even if it were viable. Its better than mut for 3s but its still not viable and it feels clunky to me especially waiting for insight stacks and having no armor pen.

[jtstormrage]

Out of those two specs only (i.e. without commenting on Combat which is best on many fights) I personally would play:

Immerseus – Assassination (add AOE) and positional requirements (most stack at front and dispel debuff on this fight)
Fallen Protectors – Assassination (Multidotting - Sub bad at switches)
Norushen – Sub if on boss (best single target) otherwise Assassin (suffers less from switches)
Sha of Pride – Assassination (add AOE and execute and Sub bad at switches to add). However, little difference.
Galakras – Assassination (good aoe and Sub bad at switches).
Iron Juggernaut – Sub (best single target)
Kor'kron Dark Shaman – Assassination (Multidotting)
General Nazgrim – Sub best for burst during berserker stance.
Malkorok – Assassination (Sub terrible when slowed by adds and boss doing slam)
Spoils of Pandaria – Sub best on big adds otherwise Assassination for AOE/multidotting.
Thok the Bloodthirsty – Sub (if need single target dps) but Assassin for bats
Siegecrafter Blackfuse – Sub better on belts
Paragons of the Klaxxi – Assassin (assuming bosses get turned a lot and lot of running in and out.
Garrosh Hellscream – Sub best for Engineers, Assassin best for overall damage (lots of execute).

[ymirsson]

Don't tell anyone but it's a topic about PvP.

[Sativ]

Don't tell anyone but it's a topic about PvP.

Teehee.

Honestly OP. sub has more on demand burst and control than the other spec.

A rogue is all about on demand burst, and control... So Sub is for sure the spec you want to invest time into learning/playing.

If you need any help or suggestions for Sub. Feel free to PM me and I'll link you some great videos on the subject.

I don't really want to spam each topic with video links. So just shoot me a PM