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  1. #521
    High Overlord Supliftz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    HA has been changed in WoD. Not sure how it works but it's defo been changed....
    oh well then

    gg divine plea

  2. #522
    Remember that fistweaving will also still cost mana. CJL is just the same thing the other 4 healers are getting, a way to do ranged damage for free and get a minuscule amount of mana back while doing so. With crit levels going down the drain and chi generation/consumption getting tanked, Mana Tea channeling won't happen nearly as often, so it's feasible that if you don't need the damage but want some mana back that you would sit and channel CJL instead of fistweaving or healing. Of course, that's making the assumption that a fight exists in which you do not need more damage.
    Theorycrafting is on hold until the WoD beta is far enough along for number tuning to happen.

  3. #523
    The problem is that instead of returning mana celesty has said it will instead create mana tea. The last thing this spec needs is more time channeling and less time actually playing the damn game.
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  4. #524
    Quote Originally Posted by Reglitch View Post
    The problem is that instead of returning mana celesty has said it will instead create mana tea. The last thing this spec needs is more time channeling and less time actually playing the damn game.
    I'm hoping he meant that channeling in Crane indirectly creates tea by generating Chi, not that channeling in Serpent will become tea. If that's not what he meant, then we can just chalk it up to another nonsensical MW blunder.
    Theorycrafting is on hold until the WoD beta is far enough along for number tuning to happen.

  5. #525
    [*snip* Read that wrong]
    I came here to see how you Monks feel about Bilzz's insistace on making Mistweaving and Fistweaving seperate:
    "We are 100% committed to making sure that there's no cherry-picking between Serpent/Crane. We'll adjust as necessary if so." -Celestalon
    Last edited by Kurosendo; 2014-04-17 at 06:28 PM. Reason: Read info wrong, corrected.
    Shaman to the core. =]
    I remain confident that one day I will be able to play my favorite class as my favorite race: Worgen Shaman. (cause it makes more sense than a Goblin Shaman...)
    I play Warmachine. You should too. =]

  6. #526
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    I'm hoping he meant that channeling in Crane indirectly creates tea by generating Chi, not that channeling in Serpent will become tea. If that's not what he meant, then we can just chalk it up to another nonsensical MW blunder.
    Considering a full channel is 2% mana return, and a mana tea stack is 4% (unless that was nerfed and I missed it), I'm going to assume he meant through the chi generation. If a full channel generated a tea stack, that would be a buff to it in terms of overall mana return - while yeah, you'd have to spend another GCD later consuming the tea, you're going to do that anyway.

  7. #527
    Quote Originally Posted by Supliftz View Post
    Uhhh... On most 25 man fights, glyphed surging spam is quite strong, no one in their right mind right now is using soothing for chi. With spirit/crit levels we have in full bis, with mana tides/hymn you can spam surging with rjw active.

    if you're using soothing for chi right now, you're doing something horribly wrong.

    the jump from 10 to 25 does not make surging spam any weaker.
    You don't use it.. keeping RJW up full time takes too much mana to spoil it on Surging Mist 99% of the time.

    There isn't many fights in SoO where you use Soothing Mist in 25 man anyways.

    I totally get the point of using it, I glyphed it but to be honest, it's one of those things not doing enough of a difference to be noticeable in 25.. could be wrong, but I never felt it was gamebreaking when I used it myself.
    Karuzo, mistweaver monk | Macphisto, discipline priest
    <Razzia>, US-Arthas | @Spotnick

  8. #528
    I'm not very happy about what they're doing with CJL. That's just dumb imo.
    Every post about MW makes me feel like blizz has absolutely no idea what they want to do with MW.
    I'll have to see what happens with it in beta, but if they keep going in this direction chances are I'll probably main swap :/

  9. #529
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyriaa View Post
    I'm not very happy about what they're doing with CJL. That's just dumb imo.
    Every post about MW makes me feel like blizz has absolutely no idea what they want to do with MW.
    I'll have to see what happens with it in beta, but if they keep going in this direction chances are I'll probably main swap :/
    This is every post about every class change ever, they know what they're doing - it's just it doesn't happen to be in line with what you want them to do. Not that you're wrong for thinking that, I doubt you'd be hard done by to find people in this forum that agree.
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  10. #530
    I see a lot of shit about Atonement and how every healer should have it. I don't think any healer should have it, I think tanks should tank dps should dps and healers should heal. Why don't they just remove healing from the game and give you a certain amount of health to use throughout the fight and if you mess up you die, if you do what you're supposed to you live. Everyone gets to dps and /flex at their numbers and the world is happy.

  11. #531
    does cjl generate chi in healer stance? cus aladya said it did but afaik it doesnt

  12. #532
    Quote Originally Posted by DreadNeos View Post
    I see a lot of shit about Atonement and how every healer should have it. I don't think any healer should have it, I think tanks should tank dps should dps and healers should heal. Why don't they just remove healing from the game and give you a certain amount of health to use throughout the fight and if you mess up you die, if you do what you're supposed to you live. Everyone gets to dps and /flex at their numbers and the world is happy.
    because filling your empty gcds with damage is a lot more fun then sitting there doing nothing or trying to snipe heals. This is especially true on farm content. I think getting away from pure healing classes would be a good thing and move to some healing some dps classes. in my humble opinion

  13. #533
    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    does cjl generate chi in healer stance? cus aladya said it did but afaik it doesnt
    It does not, the wording simply hasn't been changed in the tooltip.
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  14. #534
    Over 9000! apepi's Avatar
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    CJL in crane stance is going to be pretty nice with the meta gem. A free flash heal +2% mana and chi? Though they probably will make it useless after we hit 91.
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  15. #535
    Quote Originally Posted by DreadNeos View Post
    I see a lot of shit about Atonement and how every healer should have it. I don't think any healer should have it, I think tanks should tank dps should dps and healers should heal. Why don't they just remove healing from the game and give you a certain amount of health to use throughout the fight and if you mess up you die, if you do what you're supposed to you live. Everyone gets to dps and /flex at their numbers and the world is happy.
    Couldnt have said it better myself, using it as signature hope ure ok with it
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Blithe View Post
    Most of the Wildstar beta that I participated in consisted of global chat talking about how much better World of Warcraft was until we eventually logged off and logged onto Warcraft instead (that was hilarious).

  16. #536
    Herald of the Titans Lovestar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reglitch View Post
    This is every post about every class change ever, they know what they're doing - it's just it doesn't happen to be in line with what you want them to do. Not that you're wrong for thinking that, I doubt you'd be hard done by to find people in this forum that agree.
    I don't know, MW in particular feels like they're just swinging sticks at a pinata while blindfolded.

    That said I agree, they definitely have an end point they're trying to reach with the spec which will be absolutely functional and balanced (to a point). I think it's just an end point many of us will absolutely loathe unless a huge change in their 'vision' occurs during Beta.

  17. #537
    Quote Originally Posted by apepi View Post
    CJL in crane stance is going to be pretty nice with the meta gem. A free flash heal +2% mana and chi? Though they probably will make it useless after we hit 91.
    I guarantee you that Blizzard will never make the mistake of giving every healer in the game 15% uptime on zero mana cost for free ever again. It is literally the worst thing they could have ever possibly done to healing, but it was too late to change it by the time 5.4 rolled around.

    @Dread, if you don't ever want to be a healer that does damage you definitely 100% should not have rolled a Monk. From the very beginning they've been all about doing damage and healing at the same time, see L30 talents, L90 talents, and the fact that the statue is completely useless without Eminence. Unfortunately Blizzard agrees with you, damage to healing mechanics are being gutted across the board with Crane stance separation and Penance being removed from Atonement. The new free damage that gives a little mana back thing that every healer is getting is just Shaman's Telluric Currents that they've had since Cata given to everyone, it does no real damage and returns a very small amount of mana, it's just a button you press when there's no healing to do at the moment to break that old healer habit of standing around doing nothing or overhealing a ton just to be pressing buttons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lovestar View Post
    I don't know, MW in particular feels like they're just swinging sticks at a pinata while blindfolded.

    That said I agree, they definitely have an end point they're trying to reach with the spec which will be absolutely functional and balanced (to a point). I think it's just an end point many of us will absolutely loathe unless a huge change in their 'vision' occurs during Beta.
    They know what they're doing with MW. They've gone full bore with the idea that the damage to healing thing doesn't have a place in WoW and that being a "melee healer" is not something they want in the game. I think it's stupid and a completely unnecessary spec rework because they don't want to listen to actual suggestions of how to balance the old MW, but there's a fundamental philosophy that Blizzard holds dear that healers should not have to do damage if they don't want to because people like DreadNeo up there find the idea of a healer being concerned with damage to be offensive, and that's what Blizzard is rolling with. It was fun while it lasted, but in the end people will roll a class without knowing what it's about and will demand it gets changed because it's too different and they already have too much invested to reroll. Hybrids are not allowed in WoW, Blizzard has decreed it so. MW is just another casualty of that philosophy.
    Last edited by Totaltotemic; 2014-04-17 at 10:53 PM.
    Theorycrafting is on hold until the WoD beta is far enough along for number tuning to happen.

  18. #538
    Herald of the Titans Lovestar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iDrunkenheal View Post
    because filling your empty gcds with damage is a lot more fun then sitting there doing nothing or trying to snipe heals. This is especially true on farm content. I think getting away from pure healing classes would be a good thing and move to some healing some dps classes. in my humble opinion
    MW was also sold from day one as a Different™ healer that fit the Monk theme by mixing punches & kicks & melee into its healing cycle, not two crude sub-specs that are separated by a Chi wipe and GCD and buff deletion. The "don't worry, you don't have to melee!" stuff came in to pacify people afraid of melee, but the heart of the design clearly intended you to utilize your melee abilities.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by DreadNeos View Post
    I see a lot of shit about Atonement and how every healer should have it. I don't think any healer should have it, I think tanks should tank dps should dps and healers should heal. Why don't they just remove healing from the game and give you a certain amount of health to use throughout the fight and if you mess up you die, if you do what you're supposed to you live. Everyone gets to dps and /flex at their numbers and the world is happy.
    You're right, while we're at it why don't we remove every single thing that could possibly be construed as being shared between roles or specs and just reduce the game to three classes, "Tank", "Heal", and "Stab".

    I chose to make "Stab" melee-range because now we won't have any RDPS vs. MDPS balance issues. If DPS want to avoid boss AoEs they should just roll a healer, since healers are supposed to stand at range anyway.

    I also deleted the following abilities:
    • Tank: Everything except Taunt. Taunt no longer has a CD and hits all targets in a 40-yard radius. Still off the GCD.
    • Heal: Everything except Soothing Mist and Soothinger Mist. Both are 6-second long channels. One is ST, the other is AoE. This adds gameplay depth.
    • Stab: Everything except Stabbing Strike. Giving DPS an AoE ability infringes too much on what Tanks do, and it's more interesting to single-target mobs down anyway, especially when there's 50 of them and you need to strategically decide which 10k HP mob to stab once first.

    I predict subscriptions will double and all other MMOs will go offline.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    I'm hoping he meant that channeling in Crane indirectly creates tea by generating Chi, not that channeling in Serpent will become tea. If that's not what he meant, then we can just chalk it up to another nonsensical MW blunder.
    I believe it's been Tweeted that Crane has its own mana management system.

    SPECULATION DON'T ACT LIKE THIS IS REAL:
    Would anyone be surprised if entering Crane deletes your Mana Tea stacks and prevents generating Mana Tea?

  19. #539
    It's been tweeted that Crane stance won't be free, not sure about it's own mana management.
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  20. #540
    Herald of the Titans Lovestar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reglitch View Post
    It's been tweeted that Crane stance won't be free, not sure about it's own mana management.
    I think this is the one I was thinking of:

    https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...96178424872960
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    What's the aim for FWing's mana efficiency? More sustainable/neutral or less than MWing? Noticed +300% CJL mana cost
    Not intended to be an efficiency gain; has its own separately tuned mana system.

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