1. #521
    [*snip* Read that wrong]
    I came here to see how you Monks feel about Bilzz's insistace on making Mistweaving and Fistweaving seperate:
    "We are 100% committed to making sure that there's no cherry-picking between Serpent/Crane. We'll adjust as necessary if so." -Celestalon
    Last edited by Kurosendo; 2014-04-17 at 06:28 PM. Reason: Read info wrong, corrected.
    Shaman to the core. =]
    I remain confident that one day I will be able to play my favorite class as my favorite race: Worgen Shaman. (cause it makes more sense than a Goblin Shaman...)
    I play Warmachine. You should too. =]

  2. #522
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    I'm hoping he meant that channeling in Crane indirectly creates tea by generating Chi, not that channeling in Serpent will become tea. If that's not what he meant, then we can just chalk it up to another nonsensical MW blunder.
    Considering a full channel is 2% mana return, and a mana tea stack is 4% (unless that was nerfed and I missed it), I'm going to assume he meant through the chi generation. If a full channel generated a tea stack, that would be a buff to it in terms of overall mana return - while yeah, you'd have to spend another GCD later consuming the tea, you're going to do that anyway.

  3. #523
    Quote Originally Posted by Supliftz View Post
    Uhhh... On most 25 man fights, glyphed surging spam is quite strong, no one in their right mind right now is using soothing for chi. With spirit/crit levels we have in full bis, with mana tides/hymn you can spam surging with rjw active.

    if you're using soothing for chi right now, you're doing something horribly wrong.

    the jump from 10 to 25 does not make surging spam any weaker.
    You don't use it.. keeping RJW up full time takes too much mana to spoil it on Surging Mist 99% of the time.

    There isn't many fights in SoO where you use Soothing Mist in 25 man anyways.

    I totally get the point of using it, I glyphed it but to be honest, it's one of those things not doing enough of a difference to be noticeable in 25.. could be wrong, but I never felt it was gamebreaking when I used it myself.

  4. #524
    I'm not very happy about what they're doing with CJL. That's just dumb imo.
    Every post about MW makes me feel like blizz has absolutely no idea what they want to do with MW.
    I'll have to see what happens with it in beta, but if they keep going in this direction chances are I'll probably main swap :/

  5. #525
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyriaa View Post
    I'm not very happy about what they're doing with CJL. That's just dumb imo.
    Every post about MW makes me feel like blizz has absolutely no idea what they want to do with MW.
    I'll have to see what happens with it in beta, but if they keep going in this direction chances are I'll probably main swap :/
    This is every post about every class change ever, they know what they're doing - it's just it doesn't happen to be in line with what you want them to do. Not that you're wrong for thinking that, I doubt you'd be hard done by to find people in this forum that agree.

  6. #526
    I see a lot of shit about Atonement and how every healer should have it. I don't think any healer should have it, I think tanks should tank dps should dps and healers should heal. Why don't they just remove healing from the game and give you a certain amount of health to use throughout the fight and if you mess up you die, if you do what you're supposed to you live. Everyone gets to dps and /flex at their numbers and the world is happy.

  7. #527
    does cjl generate chi in healer stance? cus aladya said it did but afaik it doesnt

  8. #528
    Quote Originally Posted by DreadNeos View Post
    I see a lot of shit about Atonement and how every healer should have it. I don't think any healer should have it, I think tanks should tank dps should dps and healers should heal. Why don't they just remove healing from the game and give you a certain amount of health to use throughout the fight and if you mess up you die, if you do what you're supposed to you live. Everyone gets to dps and /flex at their numbers and the world is happy.
    because filling your empty gcds with damage is a lot more fun then sitting there doing nothing or trying to snipe heals. This is especially true on farm content. I think getting away from pure healing classes would be a good thing and move to some healing some dps classes. in my humble opinion

  9. #529
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    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    does cjl generate chi in healer stance? cus aladya said it did but afaik it doesnt
    It does not, the wording simply hasn't been changed in the tooltip.

  10. #530
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    CJL in crane stance is going to be pretty nice with the meta gem. A free flash heal +2% mana and chi? Though they probably will make it useless after we hit 91.
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  11. #531
    Quote Originally Posted by DreadNeos View Post
    I see a lot of shit about Atonement and how every healer should have it. I don't think any healer should have it, I think tanks should tank dps should dps and healers should heal. Why don't they just remove healing from the game and give you a certain amount of health to use throughout the fight and if you mess up you die, if you do what you're supposed to you live. Everyone gets to dps and /flex at their numbers and the world is happy.
    Couldnt have said it better myself, using it as signature hope ure ok with it
    Quote Originally Posted by vilememory View Post
    Don't play it but hang out on the forums and tell people to not play it. Scream and bitch about everything and say everything was better back in the Vanilla. World lag, server crashes, people holding AQ gates hostage. And make sure to insult everybody who disagrees with you. They are sub human and deserve to be mocked.

  12. #532
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reglitch View Post
    This is every post about every class change ever, they know what they're doing - it's just it doesn't happen to be in line with what you want them to do. Not that you're wrong for thinking that, I doubt you'd be hard done by to find people in this forum that agree.
    I don't know, MW in particular feels like they're just swinging sticks at a pinata while blindfolded.

    That said I agree, they definitely have an end point they're trying to reach with the spec which will be absolutely functional and balanced (to a point). I think it's just an end point many of us will absolutely loathe unless a huge change in their 'vision' occurs during Beta.

  13. #533
    Quote Originally Posted by apepi View Post
    CJL in crane stance is going to be pretty nice with the meta gem. A free flash heal +2% mana and chi? Though they probably will make it useless after we hit 91.
    I guarantee you that Blizzard will never make the mistake of giving every healer in the game 15% uptime on zero mana cost for free ever again. It is literally the worst thing they could have ever possibly done to healing, but it was too late to change it by the time 5.4 rolled around.

    @Dread, if you don't ever want to be a healer that does damage you definitely 100% should not have rolled a Monk. From the very beginning they've been all about doing damage and healing at the same time, see L30 talents, L90 talents, and the fact that the statue is completely useless without Eminence. Unfortunately Blizzard agrees with you, damage to healing mechanics are being gutted across the board with Crane stance separation and Penance being removed from Atonement. The new free damage that gives a little mana back thing that every healer is getting is just Shaman's Telluric Currents that they've had since Cata given to everyone, it does no real damage and returns a very small amount of mana, it's just a button you press when there's no healing to do at the moment to break that old healer habit of standing around doing nothing or overhealing a ton just to be pressing buttons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lovestar View Post
    I don't know, MW in particular feels like they're just swinging sticks at a pinata while blindfolded.

    That said I agree, they definitely have an end point they're trying to reach with the spec which will be absolutely functional and balanced (to a point). I think it's just an end point many of us will absolutely loathe unless a huge change in their 'vision' occurs during Beta.
    They know what they're doing with MW. They've gone full bore with the idea that the damage to healing thing doesn't have a place in WoW and that being a "melee healer" is not something they want in the game. I think it's stupid and a completely unnecessary spec rework because they don't want to listen to actual suggestions of how to balance the old MW, but there's a fundamental philosophy that Blizzard holds dear that healers should not have to do damage if they don't want to because people like DreadNeo up there find the idea of a healer being concerned with damage to be offensive, and that's what Blizzard is rolling with. It was fun while it lasted, but in the end people will roll a class without knowing what it's about and will demand it gets changed because it's too different and they already have too much invested to reroll. Hybrids are not allowed in WoW, Blizzard has decreed it so. MW is just another casualty of that philosophy.
    Last edited by Totaltotemic; 2014-04-17 at 10:53 PM.

  14. #534
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    Quote Originally Posted by iDrunkenheal View Post
    because filling your empty gcds with damage is a lot more fun then sitting there doing nothing or trying to snipe heals. This is especially true on farm content. I think getting away from pure healing classes would be a good thing and move to some healing some dps classes. in my humble opinion
    MW was also sold from day one as a Different™ healer that fit the Monk theme by mixing punches & kicks & melee into its healing cycle, not two crude sub-specs that are separated by a Chi wipe and GCD and buff deletion. The "don't worry, you don't have to melee!" stuff came in to pacify people afraid of melee, but the heart of the design clearly intended you to utilize your melee abilities.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by DreadNeos View Post
    I see a lot of shit about Atonement and how every healer should have it. I don't think any healer should have it, I think tanks should tank dps should dps and healers should heal. Why don't they just remove healing from the game and give you a certain amount of health to use throughout the fight and if you mess up you die, if you do what you're supposed to you live. Everyone gets to dps and /flex at their numbers and the world is happy.
    You're right, while we're at it why don't we remove every single thing that could possibly be construed as being shared between roles or specs and just reduce the game to three classes, "Tank", "Heal", and "Stab".

    I chose to make "Stab" melee-range because now we won't have any RDPS vs. MDPS balance issues. If DPS want to avoid boss AoEs they should just roll a healer, since healers are supposed to stand at range anyway.

    I also deleted the following abilities:
    • Tank: Everything except Taunt. Taunt no longer has a CD and hits all targets in a 40-yard radius. Still off the GCD.
    • Heal: Everything except Soothing Mist and Soothinger Mist. Both are 6-second long channels. One is ST, the other is AoE. This adds gameplay depth.
    • Stab: Everything except Stabbing Strike. Giving DPS an AoE ability infringes too much on what Tanks do, and it's more interesting to single-target mobs down anyway, especially when there's 50 of them and you need to strategically decide which 10k HP mob to stab once first.

    I predict subscriptions will double and all other MMOs will go offline.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    I'm hoping he meant that channeling in Crane indirectly creates tea by generating Chi, not that channeling in Serpent will become tea. If that's not what he meant, then we can just chalk it up to another nonsensical MW blunder.
    I believe it's been Tweeted that Crane has its own mana management system.

    SPECULATION DON'T ACT LIKE THIS IS REAL:
    Would anyone be surprised if entering Crane deletes your Mana Tea stacks and prevents generating Mana Tea?

  15. #535
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    It's been tweeted that Crane stance won't be free, not sure about it's own mana management.

  16. #536
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reglitch View Post
    It's been tweeted that Crane stance won't be free, not sure about it's own mana management.
    I think this is the one I was thinking of:

    https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...96178424872960
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    What's the aim for FWing's mana efficiency? More sustainable/neutral or less than MWing? Noticed +300% CJL mana cost
    Not intended to be an efficiency gain; has its own separately tuned mana system.

  17. #537
    Quote Originally Posted by Reglitch View Post
    This is every post about every class change ever, they know what they're doing - it's just it doesn't happen to be in line with what you want them to do. Not that you're wrong for thinking that, I doubt you'd be hard done by to find people in this forum that agree.
    No it's not that. I LOVE what they're doing with Mages, I think it makes absolute sense.
    Ele sham bothers me a little bit but I see why they're doing it and I think it'll work out in the end.
    MW on the other hand does not.
    I'm definitely the last person to cry the sky is falling, trust me on that one.

  18. #538
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyriaa View Post
    No it's not that. I LOVE what they're doing with Mages, I think it makes absolute sense.
    Ele sham bothers me a little bit but I see why they're doing it and I think it'll work out in the end.
    MW on the other hand does not.
    I'm definitely the last person to cry the sky is falling, trust me on that one.
    The MW changes make sense if you pretend MoP Beta and MoP didn't happen and they're just building a new healing spec. From that perspective it's like "Oh okay, I see where they're going with this, it's rough right now but should be polished up by Beta's end."

    My personal issue isn't with the design itself (it sounds underwhelming, but no lamer than plenty of other specs in WoW), but with the design trampling on top of what MW used to be. This is one of those "If you didn't know better, you'd probably like it (or just not play it)" situations IMO.

  19. #539
    Quote Originally Posted by Lovestar View Post
    The MW changes make sense if you pretend MoP Beta and MoP didn't happen and they're just building a new healing spec. From that perspective it's like "Oh okay, I see where they're going with this, it's rough right now but should be polished up by Beta's end."

    My personal issue isn't with the design itself (it sounds underwhelming, but no lamer than plenty of other specs in WoW), but with the design trampling on top of what MW used to be. This is one of those "If you didn't know better, you'd probably like it (or just not play it)" situations IMO.
    Personally I think the design still doesn't make sense. SCK and Chi Torpedo as PBAoEs only make sense if a MW is in melee all the time, you literally cannot use them on ranged on a fight that has a "hits all players within 8 yards of target" mechanic. The entire L90 talent tier falls to pieces if the ranged are spread out in a circle around the boss like Malkork or Paragons. Holy Radiance used to be like this but it was changed because a Holy Paladin (a ranged character) having to be in melee to effectively heal didn't make a lot of sense. Chain Heal used to have an awful bounce radius, so Shamans got Glyph of Chain Heal and Ascendance which greatly help out with healing a spread out raid.

    I get what they're trying to do, but they're holding onto pieces of the existing MW spec as if it's still a "melee healer" when it's clearly not going to be in WoD. It's like they're just making a new healing spec but holding onto arbitrary parts of the old one because...?

  20. #540
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    Personally I think the design still doesn't make sense.
    Aspects of it don't, yeah, but the overall direction they're going in does seem to make sense as a spec. Horrible, horrible sense, but still... sense.

    If this was late Beta with 1 month to release I'd be like "This spec is going to be a trainwreck". For Alpha-going-on-early-Beta it's, eh, it's getting there. There's so much time to change, and Blizzard's design philosophy is so heavily iterative, that I'm not concerned about the actual functionality in WoD content — yet. Stuff like holes in the AoE logic is the kind of thing that they will (hypothetically...) swing around and fix as they refine the "feel" blahblah etc.

    Don't get me wrong — I despise the way they're handling this, but objectively, I don't have a lot of concern about MW's ability to get healing done once they finish iterating. I may not be playing it in 6.0, but those who do will probably function, possibly better than 5.4 since Blizzard will no longer be bizarrely-paralyzed by confusion about how they want to balance the spec.

    I get what they're trying to do, but they're holding onto pieces of the existing MW spec as if it's still a "melee healer" when it's clearly not going to be in WoD. It's like they're just making a new healing spec but holding onto arbitrary parts of the old one because...?
    Well, because it's still a rough draft, and Blizzard is like a necromancer dissecting a corpse right now. As they rearrange and amputate and glue stuff together to create the new Mistweaving Abomination they'll throw more bits that no longer work in the garbage bin (aka Crane Stance).

    Also probably, they have to know, on some level, that they're completely brazenly rewriting quite a bit of what this spec was sold as. Some of the stuff they're leaving in atm feels like a sheepish half-gesture to try to make it feel like they're not just swapping a new class in while you weren't looking (even if they'd prefer to). Blizz is very sensitive to how people react when familiar buttons disappear, so they're probably inclined to sledgehammer preexisting stuff into working in a new form vs. just starting over properly.

    I don't mean to sound schizoid here, but I'm trying to keep my own increasingly-severe disappointment with the WoD design objectively separate from functional concerns. Functionally, I don't think anyone has cause to worry yet. They at least seem to believe they have a plan, so I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt while we're still in Alpha.

    That's actually the worst part IMO — I feel confident they'll make New MW work well as a healing spec. Which means Old MW is pretty much doomed, because people will get used to the new one, enjoy its renewed effectiveness, and forget what it used to have. QQ.
    Last edited by Lovestar; 2014-04-18 at 10:35 AM.


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