Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before... He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. -Kurt Vonnegut, "Cat's Cradle"
"Not everything on the internet is true." -- Abraham Lincoln
Good is the enemy of great.
Juggs 25 normal, all parses ... 350k is over 95th percentile for that spec, which means only about 4% of Enhammies do more dps on that fight
Even sorted by top 100 you'd be just over 80th percentile for Enhammies ...
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But yeah TLDR; DPS expectations from certain ilvl range(s) is a bit silly and shouldn't be done.
The problem about Iron Juggernaut is that many guilds, mine included, still get knocked back during phase 2, which makes it quite horrible to do good dps. That 350k number is probably quite old, as we've had a break for a month during Christmas, have not been logging farm on WoL since then [I believe]. Considering that I only had an 80% uptime, wasn't using DoC or treants, I am completely convinced that I could do a lot more damage.
The 480k number was from a Norushen log where I did about 500k dps on personal recount. http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...pe=damage-done
Take away the cleave and a bit of the trinket uptime and I would judge that 460k-480k is possible for me single target.
Setting timespan to one year and looking at average parses from the start of SoO is a better guess at what minimum dps nowadays should be.
~120-150k is a good minimum for the earlier normal fights. You likely won't run into DPS issues for a little while if everyone is capable of pulling those numbers and aren't normal geared.
Nowadays, all things considered, ~200k is "average" for normals. 200k is more than enough to clear all normals and many of the early heroics.
Minimum entry heroic DPS is probably 180-250k. Average DPS nowadays in heroics is probably ~300k, probably a little higher.
For flex, if everyone's pulling 120k single target, you'll be fine. However with a lot of the retardation going around in Flex, you probably want 150k-200k for flex 3/4 to be certain.
I heal our main raid, but I have a Frost Mage alt. Last week I did 315k on Normal 25 Juggernaut with 562 gear. Still stuck using the ToT Valor trinket...
Last edited by Vedni; 2014-03-03 at 06:12 PM.
I think I can sum up this thread really well.
"I don't understand that shorter kill times will artifically inflate my dps, so I think 375k dps on juggernaut in full normal is a completely reasonable expectation."
Spoilers, if you have a 20% uptime on bloodlust, it means you overgear the encounter. Let alone if you kill a boss inside your 3 minute CD cycle.
Numerous selection biases (only characters who are logged, only "popular"/"good" specs, "good" players tend to play only "good" specs meaning that "bad" specs are represented only by "bad" players ...)
No ability to filter by gear level, or attempt to normalize for gear level
The graphs are interesting to look at but by and large they are garbage.
Reroll Brewmaster, solo-tank Blackfuse (normal) and do a 9.36 million keg smash crit on a shredder, then you have enough DPS.
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Damit why are all the rest slacking so much, wonder what they are pulling now that they have Full BiS...... 800K-900K?
Come to think about it, they propably had much lower ilvl gear, since they had only one week of raiding before HC mode opened round 556-558?
Last edited by GoKs; 2014-03-04 at 06:17 AM.
But I'd say asking for a dps number by difficulty isn't really effective since dps varies in a huge way on a fight to fight basis, single target though I'd say flex groups should aim for 150k plus, normal groups should aim for 250-300k this late in the tier and heroic is looking at 350-400 highly dependent on RNG, raid dps, and spec though, such as; a Shadow priest participating in a progression kill will probably not see over 300k on the fight.
There is no case ever in which Raidbot DPS is "extremely low." When I say it's "way too high" I am referring to "all parses." "Top 100" is just such a stupid set of numbers that they should be ignored/deleted outright.
The top 100 parses are useful just not for you perhaps, the top 100 takes the very best and averages it out, in other words if you wish to rank these are the numbers to aim for. For the average player these numbers are incomprehensible but as you progress through the raiding scene you'll see they are not as hard to obtain as first glance portrays. They are only slightly higher than they should be from bugged parses, but also for unpopular specs the Top 100 option helps a high-end player understand what to aim for such as if I wanted to see how well i'm doing in Demonology I would be able to use the top 100 logs to see what the best demo locks are doing.
Very best and padding aren't really the same thing. These people are most likely good players, but the numbers aren't all that trustworthy either, mainly because:The top 100 parses are useful just not for you perhaps, the top 100 takes the very best
1. Their fights are more than likely way shorter than people doing progress (We're talking progress DPS here)
2. They are most likely padding meters, using TotT, etc.
3. Some of those numbers aren't worth jack because they are from 30-60 seconds fights.
And all the other crap. You might use those top100 for comparing your own farm kills to them, but how is that relevant for this thread, were it was about minimum DPS required for the various difficulties?