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  1. #341
    Quote Originally Posted by nightfalls View Post
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Hey Paladins: We're planning to revert the changes to Seals and Hammer of the Righteous. Thanks for all your feedback. Keep it coming.
    From the Ret thread, applies to Prot too I guess.
    I'm going to link this for sure to my guildie, who's also a paladin (mains Ret). He got on my case for complaining so much about alpha changes, but this is the reason why so many of us do so: to prevent these terrible changes from making live.

  2. #342
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trystero View Post
    I'm going to link this for sure to my guildie, who's also a paladin (mains Ret). He got on my case for complaining so much about alpha changes, but this is the reason why so many of us do so: to prevent these terrible changes from making live.
    Better complain during development than be forced to complain or reroll or change guilds/quit b/c bench during live. I don't get what the "stfu whiner wait till it goes live" people think.

  3. #343
    The time to complain is in alpha. Things are harder to change in beta and even harder once released.

    Just be constructive and give feedback; lots of feedback.

    I for one do not like seals; they are dull. Switching from SoR to SoT is clunky in and of itself, so i never even bother (SoR doesnt do enough to generally feel worth giving up SoI. IF SoI is 'gutted' so i dont use it, then thats kind of a crappy solution isnt it?).

    SoT/SoR should be combined to a 'damage' Seal, that applies damage based on the # of targets hit (1 target=strong damage + censure. Multiple targets=weaker damage + a weaker version of censure potentially).

    Then take the other two seals and make them useful based on spec: Example
    1st Seal) DAMAGE (aoe/single target, etc)
    2nd Seal) If attacking a target that you do not have main threat on, your 'self healing' (SoI) procs are increased by 200% and applied to the current target of target.
    3rd Seal) Every time you block an attack, a nearby party member receives a temporary damage shield.

    So right there different situations, different uses. If im tanking and there is raid damage incoming, ill swap to give melee shields. If im tank swapping and the other tank is taking heavy damage, in a very paladin ish way, ill swap to give him my 'amped' up self heal SoI procs (the ones now built into our spec). Any other time ill stick with damage.

  4. #344
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Personally I thought the idea of having your seal change CS to HOTR would be a welcome change, and passive Insight would be the icing on the cake; it would finally give a definitive line to what seal to use when (e.g. SoT for single-target, SoR for multiple target). But that's just me; I'd also like there to be one seal for each spec like the old Warrior was (Arms = Battle, Fury = Berserker, Prot = Defensive). I find "seal twisting" to be needless complexity.

    Can't say I'd be happy about losing wings though...
    Last edited by Nobleshield; 2014-04-24 at 06:38 PM.
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  5. #345
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    Personally I thought the idea of having your seal change CS to HOTR would be a welcome change, and passive Insight would be the icing on the cake; it would finally give a definitive line to what seal to use when (e.g. SoT for single-target, SoR for multiple target). But that's just me.

    Can't say I'd be happy about losing wings though...
    It would be if the seals weren't on the global. Losing a global cooldown everytime you have to swap from single target to AoE is completely retarded. They should still bake in the SoI stuff, but they should also get rid of that stupid Empowered Seals Talent. Oh, and TAKE SEALS OFF OF THE GLOBAL.

    On another topic: I really hope Seraphim isn't the best talent for Prot. It's going to make our rotation really weird having to cast a 5 HoPo ability every 30 seconds.

  6. #346
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blizzhoof View Post
    It would be if the seals weren't on the global. Losing a global cooldown everytime you have to swap from single target to AoE is completely retarded. They should still bake in the SoI stuff, but they should also get rid of that stupid Empowered Seals Talent. Oh, and TAKE SEALS OFF OF THE GLOBAL.

    On another topic: I really hope Seraphim isn't the best talent for Prot. It's going to make our rotation really weird having to cast a 5 HoPo ability every 30 seconds.
    Yeah that seems pretty lame. But personally I'm against any sort of "upkeep" buff; IMO all that stuff should be baked into regular finishers that you would do anyways.
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  7. #347
    No one I think wants seal twisting, or an upkeep buff, or GCD usage on seals.

    Having seals be meaningful choices would be awesome. I.E XYZ just happened, thats a perfect reason to change to Seal Z vs Seal Y.

    No one wants : omg 10 seconds left on my buff, betta switch seals!
    That kind of mechanic does not reward skill or promote awareness, its just rewarding people for Addon Buff Timers (Weak Aura, etc).

  8. #348
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blizzhoof View Post
    On another topic: I really hope Seraphim isn't the best talent for Prot. It's going to make our rotation really weird having to cast a 5 HoPo ability every 30 seconds.
    Beyond being against seal twisting, I'm 100% against any ability costing more than 3 Holy Power in any scenario whatsoever.

  9. #349
    While I agree, since we wont be as tied to 5 stacks of bastion to keep EF refreshed on us (bastion wont effect EF ticks after all) means we could probably do a 5hp here and there. The main issue i have with it is 10 seconds..is very limited. Hard to do much in that time frame, and it promotes a strange kind of CD dump during that period of time.

  10. #350
    I dont see us using EF tbh in WoD with current tuning.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  11. #351
    Quote Originally Posted by trystero View Post
    I'm going to link this for sure to my guildie, who's also a paladin (mains Ret). He got on my case for complaining so much about alpha changes, but this is the reason why so many of us do so: to prevent these terrible changes from making live.
    Giving feedback is good. But complaining that "Blizzard is killing their game" or "blah blah protadins are getting worse and worse blah blah" is NOT good feedback.

    OT: I'm glad they reverted the changes. I do hope that they make the seals more interesting though, without forcing us to switch. We should want to switch seals for different occasions. Not because we're forced to, to use a certain ability.

  12. #352
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaeladin View Post
    Giving feedback is good. But complaining that "Blizzard is killing their game" or "blah blah protadins are getting worse and worse blah blah" is NOT good feedback.
    Sure it's good. When you evaluate feedback, you're supposed to ignore the rhetoric, as that's the passion with which someone will post; it doesn't invalidate the merit of what they're claiming. At the same time, though, passion/rhetoric gives you a sense of how strongly someone feels about something. When several players are clamoring that "this is a horrible change, you're ruining the spec," it's a far stronger message than if you had some automatons churning out objective reports in APA style.

  13. #353
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    I dont see us using EF tbh in WoD with current tuning.

    SS? Depends how both tools scale with our new vengeance I feel.

  14. #354
    Quote Originally Posted by Rewyn View Post
    SS? Depends how both tools scale with our new vengeance I feel.
    It'll also depend on the fight. If a mechanic tests our very short-term survival then SS might be better since it's a shield and all, while EF would still favor the longer game. We'll have to see how much they nerf absorbs though.
    Last edited by Jackielope; 2014-04-25 at 03:52 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Everything Nice View Post
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  15. #355
    I hope Blizzard will get the message that most protection paladins don't want seal twisting.

    Healing is the only unique thing Protection Paladin has if you take that we have nothing left.

    Giving all tanks Riposte, Bladed Armor and Mastery AP bonus seems like a design that just makes all tanks the same.

    I feel like Protection was nerfed throughout mists and now there is little for us to get inspired about going forward.

  16. #356
    Quote Originally Posted by Saxtirical View Post
    I hope Blizzard will get the message that most protection paladins don't want seal twisting.

    Healing is the only unique thing Protection Paladin has if you take that we have nothing left.

    Giving all tanks Riposte, Bladed Armor and Mastery AP bonus seems like a design that just makes all tanks the same.

    I feel like Protection was nerfed throughout mists and now there is little for us to get inspired about going forward.
    Riposte is one way to give crit defensive value. There's perhaps the possibility of something like a monk's Elusive Brew, but wither way they want at least one way to boost avoidance through a secondary stat.

    As far as bladed armor and mastery AP bonus they're going for the safest option of just directly boosting a stat instead of an entirely new mechanic like they're doing with multistrike. There's six tank stats to work with and each one is going to need offensive and defensive value, so I'm not at all surprised they're playing it safe and simple with a couple of them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Everything Nice View Post
    Noodles and chocolate milk is the breakfast of Champions.
    Super Brony Friendfinder

  17. #357
    I feel like EF is a far too high HP dump to be able to justify especially with Seraphim being an option. It would have to be so much stronger than SS for it to be viable, and currently it is being nerfed so I do not see that happening. Also, tanks will be topped of a lot, it is silly to think otherwise. The absorb will always be useful then.
    But because SS has no opportunity cost it will most likely be used.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  18. #358
    Crit/multistrike still useless for Prot Paladins in terms of mitigation? and any changes to Holy Wrath?
    No, not useless. Very useful. Stay tuned for next patch notes update. Still considering Holy Wrath changes. (Celestalon)
    Either blizz are clueless or they're changing crit/multistrike.

  19. #359
    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    Either blizz are clueless or they're changing crit/multistrike.
    Clueless. I bet every penny I got on it.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  20. #360
    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    Either blizz are clueless or they're changing crit/multistrike.
    Unfortunately, that tweet was made over 3 weeks ago. We've since learned all about Shining Protector and Riposte.

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