[WoD] Protection Paladin Megathread

[slondon]

Do keep in mind that Seraphim has to compete with 5 seconds of 50% dmg reduction from SoTR.

Oh yes ofc, it looks like a talent that will be stronger later on in the expansion as opposed to say the first tier perhaps.

[Masternewt]

I'm quite sure they're holding out on more details. For example: Notice how no tanks have any info on multi-strike? That'll be figured out later so it keys into defense.

It's still waaaaaay too early to say we're screwed, OP, or anything in between.

Here's how it goes according to previous betas and expansions in regards to paladin stuff:

1. It's waaaaay too early, it's still alpha.
2. It's waaaay too early, it's still beta.
3. It's waay too early, it's not live yet.
4. It can still change, it's not release candidate yet.
5. It will be better in X.1.
6. It will be better in next expansion.

Paladins getting last look AGAIN, because Blizz's favourite classes again need 5 pages of changes to keep them OP.

[Nightcrwler]

These patch notes makes me sad

I'll be saying a little prayer every night until WoD release that they don't screw us over. I just can't go back to a low haste pally.....

[slondon]

fret not, seems there is definitely more info coming down the pipeline:
https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...03100039974913

[Teddybird]

For any prot out there who love there wings.

[Nobleshield]

Witholding judgment until we get closer to Beta, but a lot of these changes sound good to me, and I'm hoping for more.

[Deleted]

Not that keen on the fact Bastion of Glory doesn't increasing the Healing from EF/WoG seems a pretty big nerf to our self healing. I would of liked an absorb which uses HP really like shield barrier, Although guessing SS Tanking would be more viable then EF Tanking so perhaps another absorb is OP, (depending on scaling). It perhaps helps with the level 100 talent though requiring 5 HP.

The Perks could of been better although still pretty nice, I mean the Improved WoG is like a poor mans passive 1x Stack of Bastion of Glory 5.4 , I mean Brewmasters having 2 charges of Guard seems pretty strong even with Power Guard removed along with passive 20% stamina bonus, I might of opted for a passive stamina since theres no reforging it might be tricky getting into the your perfect AM stats to not require stamina in some early pulls with healers now forced to cast more.

The Forbearance is interesting BoP, Divine Shield so quickly after each could lead us into a nice cheesing of mechanics on certain bosses, and 10% on Divine Protection assuming the glyph works is overall good and really nice for magic burst fights.

Improved Divine Protection - Divine Protection reduces magical damage taken by an additional 10%.
Improved Forbearance - Reduces the duration of Forbearance by 30 sec.
Improved Hammer of the Righteous - Increases the damage done by Hammer of the Righteous by 20%.
Improved Word of Glory - Increases the healing done by Word of Glory and the initial healing done by Eternal Flame by 20%.
Empowered Avenger's Shield - Avenger's Shield strikes 2 additional targets.
Improved Consecration - Increases damage done by Consecration by 100%.
Improved Block - Increases your chance to block by 10%.
Improved Judgment - Increases damage done by Judgment by 20%.
Improved Crusader Strike - Increases damage done by Crusader Strike by 20%.

[Tullkas]

Vengeance has been removed and replaced with a new passive ability, Resolve.
Resolve: Increases your healing and absorption done to yourself, based on Stamina and damage taken (before avoidance and mitigation) in the last 10 seconds.

Then, to keep tank DPS meaningful, we'll be raising their damage, since it would be meager with no Vengeance Attack Power (Vengeance accounted for 70-90% of a tank's damage on high-tank-damage fights in Mists). To do that, we're increasing the damage of several prominent tank abilities, as well as having tanks also gain increased Attack Power from Mastery, in addition to the stat's existing benefits. That also helps keep secondary stats balanced in offensive value for them.

Paladin
Mastery: Divine Bulwark now also passively increases Attack Power by 12% (percentage increased by Mastery), in addition to its current effects.

Looks like my wet dreams may come true and Prot paladin in PvP will become again what it was in WOTLK - less bursty/more resilient alternative to Ret dps.

Cant wait to test.

[Deleted]

Looks like me wet dreams may come true and Prot paladin in PvP will become again what it was in WOTLK - less bursty/more resilient alternative to Ret dps.

I would be amazed if that happens, as Blizzard has been pretty set against tanks being viable in PvP recently ("when the tank is having fun in PvP, no one else is"). However, I particularly associate that stance with GC, so perhaps it will change now he's left. I am probably the world's worst PvPer, but, like you, I would love for prot to become viable in PvP.

[Tullkas]

I would be amazed if that happens, as Blizzard has been pretty set against tanks being viable in PvP recently ("when the tank is having fun in PvP, no one else is"). However, I particularly associate that stance with GC, so perhaps it will change now he's left. I am probably the world's worst PvPer, but, like you, I would love for prot to become viable in PvP.

Yea, well if not as a less bursty alternative with enough sustained pressure/survivability to still be a threat then at least viable flag carrier. These days its druid/war or nothing.

[nightfalls]

HotR - sucks slightly less now.
We go back to SS.
We lost Wings + devo, because logic.
We still don't have crit scaling.

HotR: Needs rework still for Prot/Ret current changes are not good enough.
Level 45 talents needs a hard look for all specs.
Devotion Aura: All tanks are losing their raid CD's. For the better, IMO.
Wings: Guardians keep berserk. Logic.
Crit/MS scaling hasn't been announced yet and Paladin section IIRC is way incomplete.

Regarding Paladin CD's I don't think Ret really needs trimming that much. We aren't that heavy. I'd say we can keep AW and Guardian, just make Prot have AD become a passive instead of a CD.

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Yea, well if not as a less bursty alternative with enough sustained pressure/survivability to still be a threat then at least viable flag carrier. These days its druid/war or nothing.

To be a viable FC you need way more mobility and CC resistance than you have now. That said I don't like tanks in arena, but I'd rather fix that by making tanks take a 10x extra damage taken, 90% damage done reduced debuff in arena only. In RBG's they are fine as node guards/flag carriers and should be part of the game in that role. And more tank specs should be viable for those roles.

[tanktank]

marking for future, I would hate to have to main my lock come the next expansion. It is starting to look that way.

[Raeph]

Most changes seem ok. I'll miss Wings and Blinding light myself (very nice when glyphed for aoe pulls) but I can see the rationale.

The SoF replacement Seraphim looks interesting.

Seraphim (Protection, Retribution) - The Light temporarily magnifies your power, increasing your Haste, Critical Strike, Mastery, Multistrike, and Bonus Armor from gear by 30% for 10 sec. 5 Holy Power, Instant, 30 sec cooldown

From a Prot side it almost looks like you could use it to set up a longer string of strong SoTR, buffed by the bonus armor and mastery, after pooling your HP for a bit longer, once your haste from gear gets high enough. Say you have 15% haste, every thirty seconds you could push to 19.5% haste for 10 seconds. 40% haste pushes to 52% haste.

This actually lowers the upper limit of haste that we would need from gear a bit, as well as giving us strong SoTR during that time. It also synergies quite well with Divine Purpose also, allowing you to "pool" the procs to a degree. You get a DP proc, you pool your HoPo to 5, use Seraphim, use up the proc and and get a 30% stronger SoTR while building HoPo a bit faster for additional casts, getting as many as 3 buffed SoTR during that time frame, depending on haste levels, even more with DP procs.

Stacking this with Holy Avenger also leads to a very powerful combination as well.

And it is a much more active play style than using Holy Shield.

Looking forward to it.

[Deleted]

OK so as a ms Ret, and odd time tank it worked well for me, as haste built prots are incerdibly viable with semi decent gameplay, just kinda interested in the seemingly super heavy reliance that seems incoming on mastery for wod, as the patch notes seem to say that mastery increases tank damage output, plus the normal factors as well, so does that mean prots will be going mastery heavy and forgetting haste as it stands, now i know alpha is alpha, but what is the first thoughts that come to mind (unless i misread the patch notes ofc)

[Jackielope]

OK so as a ms Ret, and odd time tank it worked well for me, as haste built prots are incerdibly viable with semi decent gameplay, just kinda interested in the seemingly super heavy reliance that seems incoming on mastery for wod, as the patch notes seem to say that mastery increases tank damage output, plus the normal factors as well, so does that mean prots will be going mastery heavy and forgetting haste as it stands, now i know alpha is alpha, but what is the first thoughts that come to mind (unless i misread the patch notes ofc)

The reason they're giving mastery that benefit is so it can stand up as being a useful offensive stat like the rest of the secondary stats. If it didn't offer some sort of offensive boost, mastery would probably lag behind in overall value even if it's superior for defense.

It's still too early to tell what the value of the stats will be. Only when we have actual numbers and simulations and such will we be able to figure that out.

[arel00]

The talents look quite interesting, tho I must say I'm partial to Empowered Seals right now. A bit of seal twisting and we have 10% attack speed, 10% ap, and 3% life every 2 secs all the time. Even with the base cooldown we can manage 3 buffs, albeit with some difficulties, with some haste it becomes way easier.

[Deja Thoris]

The talents look quite interesting, tho I must say I'm partial to Empowered Seals right now. A bit of seal twisting and we have 10% attack speed, 10% ap, and 3% life every 2 secs all the time. Even with the base cooldown we can manage 3 buffs, albeit with some difficulties, with some haste it becomes way easier.

As sure as the run will rise tomorrow they will not allow this.

[Dom]

Can't say I like the changes. When they were going to remove ability bloat, I didn't want to lose a signature offensive CD and a raid wide CD. I would hope they replace it with something else.

[Raeph]

As sure as the run will rise tomorrow they will not allow this.

They might, however think about that: every twenty seconds you have to burn three GCDs to keep all three buffs up.

Three fillers, generators, spenders or support spells gone, every twenty seconds.

Only one of those buffs will be worth keeping for even the loss of one GCD, and that is the 3% life regen one. After seeing Seraphim, I doubt 3% life regen per tick trumps what that buff gives you every thirty seconds, for a 10 second duration.

[Deleted]

The talents look quite interesting, tho I must say I'm partial to Empowered Seals right now. A bit of seal twisting and we have 10% attack speed, 10% ap, and 3% life every 2 secs all the time. Even with the base cooldown we can manage 3 buffs, albeit with some difficulties, with some haste it becomes way easier.

10% AP - Nice to have. Strong? Not sure. Depends how well we scale with AP.
10% Attack Speed - potentially great if it's actually 10% _HASTE_ (since they are making all speed buffs just be haste it sounds like).
3% Life Regen - "meh". Honestly not fantastic. It's too slow and low to be meaningful healing. Nothing lifesaving and nothing your healers will care about you keeping up. Maybe if it could heal other people if it would overheal it might be a nice option.

It's costing you a GCD every seal swap (and also giving up the effect of your insight temporarily) plus prioritizing Judgment before Haste starts reducing the cooldown a great deal. Could end up pushing your stronger spells like Avenger's Shield back in order to fit the Judgment inside that 20 second window. 2 buffs will be simple to keep up and I would recommend going for the AP and Attack Speed ones. 3 is going to really push it and require a lot of micro in initial gear when we're back to an almost 6 second cooldown on Judgment.

If that Attack Speed one is real Haste, that'll be what you take the talent for plus a little extra DPS through the AP. Otherwise I'm thinking both Seraphim and Holy Shield will be better defensive choices except on magic-heavy fights.

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Can't say I like the changes. When they were going to remove ability bloat, I didn't want to lose a signature offensive CD and a raid wide CD. I would hope they replace it with something else.

Almost all tanks lost the same things.

Army damage reduced by 75%.
No more Prot Recklessness.
No Rallying Cry.
No Demo Banner.
etc.

They aren't going to replace them just for us.