1. #2981
    with AoW gone in 6.0, any word on what our 2p will be

  2. #2982
    AoW was just baked into our Exorcism. No removal per se. Also, are you talking about PvP or PvE? PvE I can imagine something completely bland like "Your Crusader Strike now deals 10% more damage".

  3. #2983
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    It seems we Retribution paladins are no longer masters of the warfare teachings of Sun Tzu anymore. Too bad i liked such cool ability name that wasn't "light" centered.

  4. #2984
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    That tweet.../facepalm.

    How hard is it to understand that a dps spec is already at a disadvantage already when competing with a tank/healer for a raid spot? Especially when the dps brings nothing unique to the table that the tank or healer can't do, or they bring more. Let us not mention that other dps bring stronger more versatile raid utility.

    Give us back Eye for an Eye as a passive, and give us Retribution Aura like Devo Aura where it puts an effect on the raid that a % of damage gets reflected back to the boss.

    How hard is it for Blizzard to acknowledge that ret has been gutted like a fish and is being left on the shore to rot?
    Patience is a virtue. I never claimed to be virtuous.

  5. #2985
    Also lastly if they are going to create a fucking "seal twist" which has nothing to do with seal twisting talent. Please make fucking sense swapping is simply just not going to happen with GCD espeically in the final tier the talent is dead. Hell if the AW Glyph goes live it's dead before iyou hit lvl 100. Why over complicate shit. Let us put 2 Seals active at a time and have synergy between COMBOS. Oh wait that would take work and class design.j

    For instance Truth + rightiousness. Your attacks do 15% holy damage and your censure cleaves. Judgement effects apply XXXX something something I guess it could be the 15% AP and 30% attack speed. Whatever.

    Insight + Truth puts a hot on the target being attacked.

    Rightiousness + Insight = AoE healing when doing dps like old battle healer

    Rightiousness + justice AoE snare

    Insight + Justice Healing debuff

    BUT NAAAHHHH expanding the toolkit of seals would make ret too good. Infact I beleieve this suggestion is SO FUCKING amazing fuck talents baseline and make a new talent from scratch.

    Yes I know I should design ret at blizzard for Paladins. Praise messiah Anaxie

  6. #2986
    I don't like the idea, as you'd need to bind all seals again to get maximum performance and it would feel very clunky (to me) to have 4 different seals next to each other on the bar, each having a different keybind and all causing a GCD. If GCD is removed, you'd still need the keybinds for the 1+1 combo, so nothing is gained there.

    Just remove the seals already - make the effects passive for each invidual specc and give rets' HotR the ability to spread censure, and DS refreshes the duration of Censure or something.
    Last edited by Kelemar; 2014-05-24 at 03:40 PM.

  7. #2987
    I'd get fired in a week for telling kids to eat shit on twitter D:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelemar View Post
    I don't like the idea, as you'd need to bind all seals again to get maximum performance and it would feel very clunky (to me) to have 4 different seals next to each other on the bar, each having a different keybind and all causing a GCD. If GCD is removed, you'd still need the keybinds for the 1+1 combo, so nothing is gained there.
    Well naturally remove the GCD because it's logical.

    then you can just macro combos, Oh wait button bloat gotta make game retarded and kill ret instead.

  8. #2988
    Quote Originally Posted by Dakeshi View Post
    encounter design issue.
    Class design issue.
    It's impossible to make every encounter, where paladins need use HoF every 25 sec, Purity - every 30 sec.
    Now you can die in bubble on most encounters and most debuffs can't be dispel by it.
    How many bosses in MOP for Purity? (Not about staiding in fire on blackfuse or stucking debuff on twins) ~5 out of 41. (And purity won't work on 2 of them: ra-den & councils)

  9. #2989
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    I'd get fired in a week for telling kids to eat shit on twitter D:

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    Well naturally remove the GCD because it's logical.
    Wouldn't help though - you'd still need 4 keybinds just for the seals. Again, to me, it would feel very clunky.

  10. #2990
    Quote Originally Posted by ykiigor View Post
    Class design issue.
    It's impossible to make every encounter, where paladins need use HoF every 25 sec, Purity - every 30 sec.
    Now you can die in bubble on most encounters and most debuffs can't be dispel by it.
    How many bosses in MOP for Purity? (Not about staiding in fire on blackfuse or stucking debuff on twins) ~5 out of 41. (And purity won't work on 2 of them: ra-den & councils)
    You're right it is a class design issue.l

    Hand of Sac should wipe the target clean of NPC debuffs
    Hand of Protection should have 2 Versions
    Lay on Hands should not Give forberance
    Freedom should do more then "snare removal"
    It should be a complete trinket ability outside pvp, and give move speed.

    I mean fuck you want hands to work. THen give them some attention Blizztard

  11. #2991
    Good joke Dakeshi that would require attention towards the spec. We only get that in the week before Expac goes live.

  12. #2992
    No worries though when beta goes live I'm sure SERAPH instantly and Emp seals will be gutted when players are like WTF IS THIS SHIT

    Unless the small beta they talked about is mainly Heroic Top tier guilds. In which case the would still be like wtf? but they wouldn't be clueless to how Seraph / EMP effectively works. I pity new ppl or Low quality players trying to comprehend that clusterfuck. They prolly won't have to though because I bet in the end its a dps loss anyhow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dakeshi View Post
    It's my first ret alpha/beta, i'm still a virgin when it comes to this ;_;
    I'd hate to break it too you then but we are screwed and Emp is also terrible design. It's cool your excited but it's a Double damage Finisher AND 6 GCDs a minute for 30% attack speed. ontop of slowing the HP generation and consumption.

  13. #2993
    seal twisting worked <for bloodelves LOL > back when twisting was the only way to generate damage for the class when the vast majority was CS every 6 seconds and auto attack. It scaled far better then using judgement and Re-Sealing since judgement would do the same damage for a Sunwell ret and a brand new 70 ret running into around in Ramparts picking his nose.

    In Todays fast paced GCD BASED resource world ret is in Emp seals DOESNT work. Now if perhaps you COULD refresh these debuffs with CRUSADER STRIKE on yourself yes it would work and bring back an oldschool portion of the seal system and hey then you could keep all 4 seals up on yourself. Why not?

    Bosses have plenty of downtime

    That likely hasn't been considered by development. Hey how bout CS refreshes Emp Seal debuffs? Brilliant

  14. #2994
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    i dunno where you think that they will change anything soon as the beta is released.

    This is blizzard folks, they will ignore us until two days before live and nerf everything and remove more things and let it go through like it was a mistake.

    one more thing to take note is that the last tweet basically screams why are you still ret? just go holy or prot, look, we even give you all the gear to do so already! just freaken leave!

    The dark ages have returned. Be ready to die to the pestilence that is ret balance.

  15. #2995
    Quote Originally Posted by Dakeshi View Post
    That's with current alpha numbers though. It also depends on the encounters and several other things. I'd worry less about numbers now and more about how things will function.

    inb4 target cap for sacred shield removed because ret buffs.
    "alpha numbers"

    Sanctity of Battle exists meaning that Emp seals if we can seek haste. ESPECIALLY since we can seek / Flask / eat / and potentially Gem haste when lucky means.... WHY take it? Slow rotation. CLunky rotation, tons of wasted GCD's. It has Zero upsides

    Atleast it's better then Seraph, sacrifice your entire gear set without GEMS / REFORGING and rotation and holy power for mediocrity.

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    infact seals i doubt are GCD reduced so imagine those slow excruciating 1.5 sec GCDs every time you seal swap. Suddenly at high haste levels swapping is costing you an extra GCD every swap. That and 7% holy weapon damage every time you hit a boss. With rightiousness stuck on.

  16. #2996
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dakeshi View Post
    I can easily see where Celestalon is coming from because he has a very big perspective to look at things at. Majority here only looks at Retribution from a Retribution perspective, not taking into account every other factor there is.

    People say the issue with out utility is that it's single target for example, but that's not true. There's just no use for it in encounters. Our utility is actually really good, but that doesn't do anything when we can't use it because of encounter design.

    The only thing out utility needs is something ret unique, or a revamp of the "Hand of X" spells and possibly make them spec unique (Not ret exclusive, but not have them shared across the entire paladin class).

    No one here is denying the fact that retri utility is pretty good. The main problem is not only our numbers and damage overall is pretty weak compare to other dpsers but also we don't have a unique utility for our main spec retri. All of our utilities are being shared with prot and holy and on top of that our damage is pretty weak compare to other dps spec classes. This is the main problem of the spec. You can hey but it's beta it's not finished yet and stuff....I'm sorry to say this but I have been playing paladin ret for over 7 years now and I can't be as optimistic as you because of all these years we were always being screwed. We are one of the most classes that get overhaul in almost every expansion now. Vanilla retri almost doesn't exist. TBC ret was my favorite which was pretty good and require a lot of skills and timing to play. Wotlk is pretty good damage wise but the rotation was boring and super easy. Cataclysm specially the first tier we were super horrible to the point that people laughing at us when they see retri. The start of MoP same thing we were pretty bad and a lot of veteran retri players being telling Blizzard and informing them with very good feedback about how retri is pretty weak in raids and that was before Cata launch it was during beta but then again Blizzard didn't listened and only decided to band aid buff us mid expansion too late...the damage is done. Same goes in MoP...during beta a lot of players kept telling blizzard that the spec is broken and pretty weak in almost every aspect compare to other dpsers but then again blizzard didn't listen and only noticed how weak we are mid tier 14 which was over 3 months after mop released then they slightly buffed us again band aid us and still not enough.

    So my point here you can't blame the people who want only to play retri to not be bitter and upset about what is blizzard been doing. It's easy to be optimistic and calm when you play the spec less than 2 years but when you play the spec for over 7 years and each time in these years you are getting screwed over and over again then you will understand what I mean.

  17. #2997
    the hilarious part about gutting the ability bloat is the number one ability that is the biggest shitbag thing in the entire paladin toolkit is and always has been seal of rightiousness. How the fuck that survived and now they are trying to shoehorn us to use is insane. How bout you just ability bloat cut the one ability everyone hates using since it's so fucking awful and make a new talent. Cool Thankies.

  18. #2998
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    im just waiting for the post to where they say divine storm has been removed. cause we all know they will try to pull that one on us eventually.

    And the only way empowered JUDGEMENT ( yes JUDGEMENT because the talent has nothing to do with you switching into the seal, just that you judge with it ) can be fun or interactive or even good is if we had incentive to keep those seals up over time and they would have to work with one another.

    For example, maybe have it to where SoT had a better censure and at 5 stacks switching into justice would apply a different debuff that consumed the first.

    As it stands, for PVE and PVP some of those buffs wont help you or are so small it wont matter, and the amount of time you spend just trying to get the judgement off in the correct seal means many wasted GCDs and provides nothing flashy or interactive in gameplay.

    Seraphim will work eventually, just not at the start of the expo which makes this talent really bad because it forces a play style that you either wanted to do and cant or didnt want to do but have to.

    And lets not forget final verdict, the talent that should be baseline and provides ZERO interaction to how we play, and also devalues the HELL out of half our kit ( our supposed good AOE without our t16 set ) If i had it my way, that entire tree would go, and i would put back seal of faith, i would give US glad stance, and maybe empowered hand spells as it stands, that entire 100 tier is just a joke and a BIG design free fall back into the stone ages of WoW hybrids, you are forced to take this cause numbers, and its not even that good! enjoy

  19. #2999
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    seal twisting worked <for bloodelves LOL > back when twisting was the only way to generate damage for the class when the vast majority was CS every 6 seconds and auto attack. It scaled far better then using judgement and Re-Sealing since judgement would do the same damage for a Sunwell ret and a brand new 70 ret running into around in Ramparts picking his nose.

    In Todays fast paced GCD BASED resource world ret is in Emp seals DOESNT work. Now if perhaps you COULD refresh these debuffs with CRUSADER STRIKE on yourself yes it would work and bring back an oldschool portion of the seal system and hey then you could keep all 4 seals up on yourself. Why not?

    Bosses have plenty of downtime

    That likely hasn't been considered by development. Hey how bout CS refreshes Emp Seal debuffs? Brilliant
    If CS refreshed it than it wouldn't really be much Seal Twisting. I honestly don't like that talent at all. They should just remove it and replace it with something more interesting rotationally.

    I'm not even sure why Seal twisting is even considered to be a "fun" talent. Even if it was strong, It's not fun.
    Last edited by nyc81991; 2014-05-24 at 04:23 PM.

  20. #3000
    I think the biggest ISSUE I am obviously having is it took them A FUCKING DECADE to finally get ret somewhat right. Now they are tearing us down completely and failing miserably at the overhaul and it's showing. Squish was needed but saying OH AND we are gutting weapon damage AND removing almost all gem slots unless you are lucky AND removing reforging AND gutting classes of abilities that make them work AND just throwing darts are the most moronic talents ever concieved.

    It's quite a huge problem. Next expansion is going to be a nightmare and unless they somehow surprise me. I'm done

    You can find me in a casual Flex Heroic Guild or in LFR on my paladin with a Perma frown and you can tell your kids. That shell of a man used to be the greatest beacon of light in all of Azeroth. Now hes a crazy bum yelling at the wall.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyc81991 View Post
    If CS refreshed it than it wouldn't really be much Seal Twisting. I honestly don't like that talent at all. They should just remove it and replace it with something more interesting rotationally.
    Pretty much nevermind I've said many times it has NOTHING to do with seal twisting and is an insult. We get it Blizz Nostalgia except just like you know fuck all about ret you know fuck all about what seal twisting really was and why it worked with the OLD design.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2014-05-24 at 04:27 PM.

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