[WoD] Retribution Paladin Megathread

[Tangra]

Oh well, a big selling point that Blizzard used for Seraphim was the Readiness component, so with that gone the talent has to significantly change. Let's just wait for the next build.

[Maegor]

Off-topic a bit, but not really: Am i the only one who think that Multistrike/Crit could possibly pull ahead of Mastery with Empowered seals? Autoattack is already a big chunk of our dps, and if we add another 30% attack speed to it, it could mean better result with crit/ms than if we stack mastery for the other skills.
Any thoughts about this?

Possible. Especially if our white attacks make up a greater % of our dps. Will depend on how hard TV and HoW hit in the end. With CS being baseline 85% wpn damage, plus 20% from the perk and being normalized, it will hit like a white attack before mastery too.

Can't wait to see some lvl 100 numbers.

[Tangra]

Possible. Especially if our white attacks make up a greater % of our dps. Will depend on how hard TV and HoW hit in the end. With CS being baseline 85% wpn damage, plus 20% from the perk and being normalized, it will hit like a white attack before mastery too.

Can't wait to see some lvl 100 numbers.

It looks like all of the level 100 talents will drastically change stat priority, which is going to lead to some interesting gearing dilemmas, especially on AoE fights where FV will not be very good, while of course taking FV makes mastery outrageously good. This is why making level 100 talents so strong, while also so different, might end up being bad design. FV should at least also buff Divine Storm as well so that we don't need very different gear for AoE fights.

[ruiizu]

It looks like all of the level 100 talents will drastically change stat priority, which is going to lead to some interesting gearing dilemmas, especially on AoE fights where FV will not be very good, while of course taking FV makes mastery outrageously good. This is why making level 100 talents so strong, while also so different, might end up being bad design. FV should at least also buff Divine Storm as well so that we don't need very different gear for AoE fights.

I used to think this way too, but I think divine storm just needs to be 100% weapon damage as holy by default. It is way too weak in the current build and should probably pull ahead of tv vs. even two targets or 3 with final verdict.

Only really bad thing about super strong level 100 talents might be in leveling and low level bgs.

[Tangra]

I used to think this way too, but I think divine storm just needs to be 100% weapon damage as holy by default. It is way too weak in the current build and should probably pull ahead of tv vs. even two targets or 3 with final verdict.

Only really bad thing about super strong level 100 talents might be in leveling and low level bgs.

Yes, but Empowered Seals is much better for AoE damage, regardless of how much damage Divine Storm does baseline. So, people will still have to switch from very mastery-heavy FV gear, to much less mastery-heavy Empowered Seals gear. In other words, if FV is going to reward mastery so much, it needs to also be decent for AoE, so that people don't need two sets of gear to be effective in aoe and non-aoe fights.

[Deleted]

Yes, but Empowered Seals is much better for AoE damage, regardless of how much damage Divine Storm does baseline. So, people will still have to switch from very mastery-heavy FV gear, to much less mastery-heavy Empowered Seals gear. In other words, if FV is going to reward mastery so much, it needs to also be decent for AoE, so that people don't need two sets of gear to be effective in aoe and non-aoe fights.

You are assuming that it isn't the intention that we have multiple sets. With no transmog or hit/expertise, there's no reason not to have a few items to swap out for certain fights as used to be the case.

[Tangra]

You are assuming that it isn't the intention that we have multiple sets. With no transmog or hit/expertise, there's no reason not to have a few items to swap out for certain fights as used to be the case.

I'm not assuming anything, I could give less of a crap whether it's intended or not, it's bad design in my opinion. Guilds should not have to be stuck in progression because they have to wait for raiders to build up both a single-target and an AoE set for different fights.

[Lyese]

I'm not assuming anything, I could give less of a crap whether it's intended or not, it's bad design in my opinion. As a guild master and loot-council leader for many years, the last thing I need is people bitching and whining about needing multiple items for their AoE set.

Man, I could never do loot council. I've always just used free roll. Anyone bitches, I remind them we're going to be killing these bosses every week for the rest of the tier. Nowhere near any loot drama once people get it in their heads.

OT: I'm not really looking forward to needing to swap pieces of gear based on the encounter. It was kinda fun in a way in BC/Wrath when you'd stack shadow or frost resistance (lol Sapphiron), but having each talent tied to particular stat sets in the absence of reforging is going to cause a lot of complaining.

[Tangra]

Man, I could never do loot council. I've always just used free roll. Anyone bitches, I remind them we're going to be killing these bosses every week for the rest of the tier. Nowhere near any loot drama once people get it in their heads.

OT: I'm not really looking forward to needing to swap pieces of gear based on the encounter. It was kinda fun in a way in BC/Wrath when you'd stack shadow or frost resistance (lol Sapphiron), but having each talent tied to particular stat sets in the absence of reforging is going to cause a lot of complaining.

Yeah, multiple sets were kind of fun back in the day, but the game abandoned that design ages ago, and today it would not work well. Bringing back the need for multiple sets would be very silly, when talents can just be tweaked a little. Min-maxers would still benefit from multiple sets, but talents like FV could make multiple sets almost mandatory for progression.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Man, I could never do loot council. I've always just used free roll. Anyone bitches, I remind them we're going to be killing these bosses every week for the rest of the tier. Nowhere near any loot drama once people get it in their heads.

OT: I'm not really looking forward to needing to swap pieces of gear based on the encounter. It was kinda fun in a way in BC/Wrath when you'd stack shadow or frost resistance (lol Sapphiron), but having each talent tied to particular stat sets in the absence of reforging is going to cause a lot of complaining.

Never liked either situations either. Switching gear sets for fights iMO isn't really that interesting.

[Tangra]

Never liked either situations either. Switching gear sets for fights iMO isn't really that interesting.

Yup, and Final Verdict is paving the way to just that. The talent makes mastery insanely good, while the other talents in that tier will not. And, as I have been mentioning, FV is terrible for AoE, so no one will take it for any serious progression fight where AoE matters.

[Deleted]

I'm not assuming anything, I could give less of a crap whether it's intended or not, it's bad design in my opinion. Guilds should not have to be stuck in progression because they have to wait for raiders to build up both a single-target and an AoE set for different fights.

Guilds that reach their skill cap always have to wait for gear to catch up; I'm not sure what difference this makes to that.

[Lyese]

Guilds that reach their skill cap always have to wait for gear to catch up; I'm not sure what difference this makes to that.

The difference is you effectively double the amount of gear needed for certain specs (assuming other classes have talents that wildly swing dps that scale better with certain stats.) I know for sure Hunters can choose a pet-less playstyle, though I'm not sure how that affects their stat weights.

[Tangra]

Guilds that reach their skill cap always have to wait for gear to catch up; I'm not sure what difference this makes to that.

It makes it worse for no particularly good reason, and also this will affect different specs differently. For example, other specs might be able to AoE and single-target with the same gear while Ret cannot, that's not exactly fair.

[Deleted]

It makes it worse for no particularly good reason, and also this will affect different specs differently. For example, other specs might be able to AoE and single-target with the same gear while Ret cannot, that's not exactly fair.

I don't agree with the first point because content has to be strung out artificially and always has done. It's simply no good to have everyone complete it in a few weeks, and WoW has always used gear as the vehicle to nerf the fights to the point where everyone seriously trying can do them.

On the second point, I'm in full agreement; if one dps class needs more than one set then so must others and to the same extent.

[Dyra]

On the second point, I'm in full agreement; if one dps class needs more than one set then so must others and to the same extent.

Shadow Priests should be. IIRC we'll be needing a specific set of high Mastery and low Haste (as close to 0 as possible I believe) for single target DPS thanks to our Clarity of Power level 100 talent.

I'm considering maining my Ret Pala in WoD, so this is slightly disappointing news to me. But then its Alpha. I'll only start deciding and getting worried about it when Beta rolls around.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Yup, and Final Verdict is paving the way to just that. The talent makes mastery insanely good, while the other talents in that tier will not. And, as I have been mentioning, FV is terrible for AoE, so no one will take it for any serious progression fight where AoE matters.

Well so far atm I choose FV due to Holy damage full. It appeals to me more then empowered seals and Seraphim. Hope I get into Alpha.

[Fredzilla]

It makes it worse for no particularly good reason, and also this will affect different specs differently. For example, other specs might be able to AoE and single-target with the same gear while Ret cannot, that's not exactly fair.

No one here can say for sure what our relative stat weights will be like come WoD. If they end up essentially the same as now, mastery is better for aoe anyway. Just because our talents might not inherently bloat a stat's weight doesn't mean it'll change our stat priority anyway.

[Vash The Stampede]

Stay positive!
It's not even beta yet!
You can't judge future by past!

Speaking of past, I remember complaining on the forums about something that showed up on Alpha for Ret. You're not suppose to talk about closed alpha info on Blizzards forums. I got permanently banned for it, even though years later the ban was lifted somehow.

Yet info today from Alpha flows like water, and everyone talks about it. For Blizzard to be releasing this much info lately, they maybe afraid to lose their customers.

[Deleted]

Yet info today from Alpha flows like water, and everyone talks about it. For Blizzard to be releasing this much info lately, they maybe afraid to lose their customers.

They say the reason is that they can't actually keep it secret so don't bother trying anymore. This is why they now engage in the discussions; so people don't jump to the wrong conclusions about changes.