[WoD] Retribution Paladin Megathread

[Deleted]

Oh yes - please finally make Hammer or the Righteous have no target requirement! It is such an annoyance and would really be a huge quality of life change considering that Divine Storm already doesn't need a target to cast it.

[Nikoll]

Oh yes - please finally make Hammer or the Righteous have no target requirement! It is such an annoyance and would really be a huge quality of life change considering that Divine Storm already doesn't need a target to cast it.

if that was implemented we would start every fight with 5 HP and inquisition already up. so, no, that wouldn't be good.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

if that was implemented we would start every fight with 5 HP and inquisition already up. so, no, that wouldn't be good.

Make it give Holypower if it hits a target, none if not.

[Smitus]

if that was implemented we would start every fight with 5 HP and inquisition already up. so, no, that wouldn't be good.

We already can do that with 4pc pvp holy set

[Vintersol]

if that was implemented we would start every fight with 5 HP and inquisition already up. so, no, that wouldn't be good.

Why is it not good to start with 5 holypower?

[Fhi]

Why is it not good to start with 5 holypower?

Probably the same reason they won't let us pre-CD before pulling (like Guardian and monk's tigereye brew).

[Fredzilla]

I hate when the game makes us ponder which racial is best for the class, it should be the race/lore/appearance that we should be interested in.

Psh, why do you think ive always been a dwarf? =P

[Deleted]

Make it give Holypower if it hits a target, none if not.

That would be the best, it's a really big quality of life change and with the exception of only giving HP with a target hit, it would not be OP.

[Eon Drache]

if that was implemented we would start every fight with 5 HP and inquisition already up. so, no, that wouldn't be good.

Already mentioned you can start every fight with 5 Holy Power if you just buy a crafted holy PvP set.

Also, where was it stated Guardian of Ancient Kings was being removed?

[KurenaiXIII]

I guess the way I feel towards Inquisition being gone is kind of this: What else will we spend HoPo on? As it is we have a choice of two finishers and one heal. To my mind, adding another finisher doesn't really change things up--in what situations would you use this theoretical finisher over TV or DS? If it isn't a finisher, then what?

I myself use the Glyph of Harsh Words simply to have another HoPo-spending outlet for when I don't need to refresh Inquisition and I'm not within melee range; I guess that would work, but I'm a little iffy--it seems like if Blizzard presents us with another finisher, ranged or melee, it'll either replace the relevant finisher or be useless.

What I'm really trying to say is that it's not Inquisition that's really inherently 'uninteresting', but that we don't have a lot of choices for what to do with HoPo.

[Vintersol]

Maybe they could bake in inquisition into DS/TV as additional buff after casting DS/TV. Instead of using a gcd to cast inquisition, you get a short buff of inquisition that lasts 5 seconds per holy power (15 seconds total) and using the inquisition glyph, it stacks up to 30 seconds duration. Numbers could be adjusted, but generally it could be a tradeoff for everyone.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Inq lasted 30sec and people cried that it was annoying and bad.
Inq lasts 60seconds and people cry that it's something you just hit and forget.
(obviously other issues people have but gg)

Personally I'm 110% fine with Inq, it's something you maintain much like shadow priests maintain shadow word: pain or healing priests maintain those wings they have, cant' remember the spell name. Maintenance spells (dots or buffs) aren't a problem, if you think ret is missing something then don't blame that on Inq.
There's been lots of good suggestions, worst by far is to remove inq in my opinion. Come with suggestions you'd think would ADD to ret spec, something added to Inq or a completely new spell/mechanic that forces us to think on our feet.

[Deleted]

Maybe they could bake in inquisition into DS/TV as additional buff after casting DS/TV. Instead of using a gcd to cast inquisition, you get a short buff of inquisition that lasts 5 seconds per holy power (15 seconds total) and using the inquisition glyph, it stacks up to 30 seconds duration. Numbers could be adjusted, but generally it could be a tradeoff for everyone.

I can't get why Inq should be baked into some spells or something...! It is a buff, that has around 99% uptime, so why not let it the way it is or change it into a passive.

Some ideas along with proccs are nice, but a procc is neither good gameplay in most situations, cause only to watch for the procc and press x is the same as watching if some ability is off the cooldown and using it.

[Vintersol]

I don't have any problems with inq as it is. It was an idea, where we can keep inquisition as buff without any major changes except, the buff is casted automatically after using TV/DS on a short duration. That's one possible solution, where i could live with. But i don't want inquisition removed completely. Any suggestion, how we can make inquisition more interesting is negated by the fact, that many people don't like to track a selfbuff.

[SolaronTich]

<snip> watching if some ability is off the cooldown and using it.

This was something Blizzard had touched on in a tweet or blue post recently, where they mentioned that healing cooldowns are generally saved until you need them, while DPS cooldowns are almost always used as soon as they come back up. This is why I've personally liked some of the abilities they introduced with MoP that give spells charges, like Destruction warlocks with Conflagrate/Hand of Gul'dan, or paladins with Clemency talented. I wonder if something similar could work for us?

For example an ability with a 30s CD, 2 charges that increases critical damage by X% for 10 seconds. You generally want to use it on cooldown, but it's more useful if you bank two charges for wings or lust. This particular incarnation has the added effect of increasing crit's value for us.

[Deleted]

In my opinion blizzard is going to make all "rotations" quite easy, but the encouter more difficult.

Blizzard said, that they cut 20 % of all abilities and they did not cut situational ones but ones, that are in the roation, but unfun. I think, most classes will only have 4 to 6 abilities left, that are used permanently. In addition most classes will have 1 or 2 offensive cooldowns. That's it. More will not be there after the cut of the buttonbloat.

Now we use CS (will stay), J (iconic to Pala, will stay), HoW(finisher is something to watch, will probably stay), Exo(will perhaps go), TV(will stay), additional we usw HoR and DS for AOE, which is fine. Inq will be passive I think. Assumed Exo will go, we lost 2 of 7, which is 28 per cent of our abilities. Only losing Inq would be 14 % which is also possible.

I think, it would be nice to have a CS without Cooldown and hard hitting Judge and HoW (hard hitting could be generating 2 Holy Power) with an even harder hitting TV. So we would use CS as steady damage attack and J and HoW when available. TV as a real "finisher". All in all i think we will end like a rogue with a better ressource and lower damage A combat rogue can easily play without rupture and be high in the rankings so the basic rotation is RevS, SS, SS, SS, SS, Evi and constantly refreshing Revealing Strike, when it ran out at the target.

In my example we would play like this (assuming 2 HoPo from J): J, CS, CS, CS, TV, J, CS, TV, CS, CS, CS, TV, J, CS, TV. this rotation would change significantly with shorter global cooldowns.

[Fredzilla]

In my opinion blizzard is going to make all "rotations" quite easy, but the encouter more difficult.

Blizzard said, that they cut 20 % of all abilities and they did not cut situational ones but ones, that are in the roation, but unfun. I think, most classes will only have 4 to 6 abilities left, that are used permanently. In addition most classes will have 1 or 2 offensive cooldowns. That's it. More will not be there after the cut of the buttonbloat.

Now we use CS (will stay), J (iconic to Pala, will stay), HoW(finisher is something to watch, will probably stay), Exo(will perhaps go), TV(will stay), additional we usw HoR and DS for AOE, which is fine. Inq will be passive I think. Assumed Exo will go, we lost 2 of 7, which is 28 per cent of our abilities. Only losing Inq would be 14 % which is also possible.

I think, it would be nice to have a CS without Cooldown and hard hitting Judge and HoW (hard hitting could be generating 2 Holy Power) with an even harder hitting TV. So we would use CS as steady damage attack and J and HoW when available. TV as a real "finisher". All in all i think we will end like a rogue with a better ressource and lower damage A combat rogue can easily play without rupture and be high in the rankings so the basic rotation is RevS, SS, SS, SS, SS, Evi and constantly refreshing Revealing Strike, when it ran out at the target.

In my example we would play like this (assuming 2 HoPo from J): J, CS, CS, CS, TV, J, CS, TV, CS, CS, CS, TV, J, CS, TV. this rotation would change significantly with shorter global cooldowns.

Dont quote me on this, since im not directly quoting them, but im fairly certain they didnt say specifically rotational abilities are getting the boot. THey said they want to reduce bloat on peoples bars, and no one uses every ability on their bar in their rotation (unless you only have like 7 buttons). As it is, for example, my shams bars are all almost completely full, but only about 7 or so of the buttons are my rotation. It wouldnt make much since if they want to keep complexity in the rotation to then remove some of those 7 buttons instead of the few dozen other buttons i press much more infrequently, if at all, during fights.

[nyc81991]

Proccing HoW use or making exo do more damage or whatever sounds much more appealing than going back to DP. We've already tried that route and I don't wanna go back to it, even with better HP generation. Something that makes the rotation more interesting without making or breaking our dps based on how much it procs (and DP was never really "interesting" gameplay anyway. Followed the same rules we have for our rotation without it really. About as exciting as inq is (note: this is not me complaining about inq for all you people out there who rage about inq or about those raging about it)).

Divine Purpose is nothing like it was in Cata. The only reason it isn't very exciting on single target fights is because Templar's Verdict is a weak finisher. With Holy Templar's Verdict it will actually make a good difference when it proc's back to back.

[Nikoll]

Make it give Holypower if it hits a target, none if not.

While we can that is not intended and if ret dps was higher in general that would get nerfed. However hor needing to hit a target to trigger a hp is an interesting idea.

[Fredzilla]

Divine Purpose is nothing like it was in Cata. The only reason it isn't very exciting on single target fights is because Templar's Verdict is a weak finisher. With Holy Templar's Verdict it will actually make a good difference when it proc's back to back.

And it will still suck all the more when it doesnt. We all know it will happen. RNG isnt changing any. And I really dont want my dps to be determined, yet again, by DP. That wasnt fun in cata, and with holy TVs, itll likely have as much of an effect, if not more, in WoD. Im fine with having another proc, just not one that would make up such a large % of my dps on a regular basis.

And it isnt fun because you use the procs basically like youd use non-proc tvs. Less than 5 HP with CS or some shit off cd (and the proc has more then 2-3 seconds left)? Build HP. At 5 HP? Use proc. Its not fun because it doesnt change the gameplay at all. You dont really have to think about using procs any more than you have to think about the base rotation.