1. #1741
    Quote Originally Posted by Maegor View Post
    The real problem is what if I want to cleave while giving a primary target a dot, h malk for example, where the adds don't stay alive long enough to swap seals, but I can get an hotr or two in while they are out. If this is true and he didn't just misspeak, it would be fucking retarded.
    Yeah, or what about Garrosh p1 where it's the opposite and you might want to use Righteousness to slowly melt the adds while tunneling Garrosh?
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  2. #1742
    Quote Originally Posted by Lumineus View Post
    Yeah, or what about Garrosh p1 where it's the opposite and you might want to use Righteousness to slowly melt the adds while tunneling Garrosh?
    I haven't done Garrosh on Heroic, so I can't comment on that. When we clear him on Normal, it's ok for us to whore p1, so SoR is on when adds are out and I go full blast aoe scumbag. Only time our RL gets pissed is when we aren't getting wolves down.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I do think we need to get him to clarify if HotR is meant to be tied exclusively to SoR today. Could have been a mt. And if it is, we need to follow up and see if DS, and possibly mass exo, is as well.
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  3. #1743
    Legendary! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    Think we all agree that the HotR / Seal change thing is just annoying and just going to be in the way of smooth playstyle...
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  4. #1744
    How about they just let SoR cleave? ... Ah that doesn't sound right.

    I mean, like, when in Truth, CS does its damage 100% to this one target, and when in Righteousness, CS cleaves for 25% damage. Same with Exorcism (essentially the glyph, but we keep the range) and Templar's Verdict. If you want to seriously AoE though, there's still HotR and DS... I don't know, let them do 15% more damage in Righteousness or whatever.

    I know, this idea is stupid too, but anything is better than Seal swapping in my opinion.

  5. #1745
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    Think we all agree that the HotR / Seal change thing is just annoying and just going to be in the way of smooth playstyle...
    I agree. This would be a very annoying change.

    I do not like Blade Flurry on my Rogue. And I definitely do not want the same playstyle on my Paladin. Why would they even think this is acceptable.

  6. #1746
    I'd almost be positive that TV and DS should be usable in every seal, and only CS/HotR will change. Since that was a piss poor amount of damage anyway, I'm not so concerned if that's the case. It just means seal swapping might be more worth it in sustained AoE than now I'd imagine.

    I'd rather, though, just have no seals at all, or have something like the warrior stances with a defensive and offensive one. As I mentioned, maybe an offensive, defensive (self-healing) and healing (group healing) seal.

  7. #1747
    This whole business about HotR/CS is upsetting. I feel like they are trying to take the class in the direct opposite direction that we need to go.

    One of my biggest gripes with Paladins right now is the fact that they have not fully developed our ability set to match the HP system. That along with too much downtime at certain periods of any particular expansion. This is what I would like to see:

    Judgment (6 sec CD) - Creates 1 HP (Significantly more damage than CS)
    Crusader Strike (No CD) - Creates 1 HP
    Exorcism (No CD) - Creates 1 HP (Half the damage of CS)
    Hammer of the Righteous (9 sec CD) - Creates 1 HP (Slightly less damage than CS, but does double damage to secondary targets)
    Hammer of Wrath (6 sec CD) - Creates 1 HP

    Templar's Verdict - 3 HP
    Divine Storm - 3 HP
    Word of Glory - 3 HP

    Art of War - Increases the damage of your next Exorcism by 300%




    Furthermore, I would like to see T90 interact with our resource system by either replacing a current ability or enhancing a current ability:

    Hammer of the Righteous ---> Light's Hammer (Replacement and upgrade)
    Exorcism ---> Holy Prism (Replacement and upgrade)
    Judgment ---> Execution Sentence (Enhancement)

    The T90 abilities would all create HP and share the same CDs as the ability they replace, except for ES as that would be an enhancement of Judgment.

  8. #1748
    You're asking for things that aren't going to happen. Yeah it'd be nice to have an hp generator that didn't have a cd (other than the gcd), but it won't happen this xpac.
    Maegore @Maegoree Maegor#1377

  9. #1749
    Epic! Fredzilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    If HotR/CS and DS/TV(FV) is only usable if you have X seal active they have to make the GCD from changing seals lower, like 0.5 sec or less. If they don't then it means ret aoe (or single target after aoe) will be slower to get into action and require way more prep than any other class, adds spawn in 5 seconds. Get your holy power up, already takes 1-5 gcds add one more for seal swapping (which mind you will be a single target dps loss if you swap too early) then start your aoe. After aoe is done you have to use another gcd just to get back into it, depending on how much/little haste we're gonna get for the first tier or two we're looking at 1.3-1.5 gcd (based on past experience). Add the seconds up during a fight it's a bit much to be honest, if ret aoe is lackluster I'd imagine we not bother at all leaving the typical warlocks and warriors etc to cleave their hearts out...

    Ret - Swap seal 2x to go back and forth between dps effectivenes..
    Warrior - lol bladestorm.
    Ele Shaman - Lol Chain Lightning.

    Why is it that we need to have this overly complicated system to do aoe/single target? T_T
    I dunno, enhance aoe is pretty god awful to get goin =P
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  10. #1750
    Didn't Blizzard outright say sometime since Cataclysm that they disliked the idea of 'stance dancing'? I'm fairly certain I read that at some point about warriors so how does that not apply here?

    I really don't like this change.

  11. #1751
    Change HoW to a 20s CD (it's never been a real execute, let's be honest here) costing 3HP, doing a lot more damage to compensate, and we're all set. Strong ranged pressure without overstating our ranged role, a good big hitter to line up kills with, have it effected by haste so high end raiders end up with it being top 3 damage abilities.

    Just my 2 cents. Other than that, and maybe a better answer to a gap closer than LAotL and some better damage tuning, and ret could be very strong in WoD pvp/pve

  12. #1752
    I highly doubt any kind of "stance dancing" will make it into release, it's completely the opposite direction they've been taking lately.

  13. #1753
    So, Blizzcon 2014 on Nov 7 and 8. WoD after?
    Maegore @Maegoree Maegor#1377

  14. #1754
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    All of this the sky is falling talk is just down right annoying. If you take everything at face value you either believe the damage balance will be there or you do not. If during the course of ACTUAL TESTING we find that the rotation feels clunky then I am sure it will get changed, the same way Fire and Brimstone of Blade flurry where changed, if not then I guess the people who just categorically dislike the idea of Area of Effect enablers will switch to Warrior or Deathknight.


    And all this talk about "stance dancing" is silly. The idea is far more akin to Fire and Brimstone, you turn it on the AOE and turn it off for single.

  15. #1755
    Epic! Fredzilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venge1155 View Post
    All of this the sky is falling talk is just down right annoying. If you take everything at face value you either believe the damage balance will be there or you do not. If during the course of ACTUAL TESTING we find that the rotation feels clunky then I am sure it will get changed
    Because they have a great track record of listening to us, right?

    We told them exactly what was going to happen when wrath dropped, but they didn't change anything. We were implemented with the absolute worst mastery in 4.0. We were doing fine in MoP beta until they nerfed SoL by 15% for literally no reason right before it went live.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PraisetheSun View Post
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  16. #1756
    Quote Originally Posted by Venge1155 View Post

    And all this talk about "stance dancing" is silly. The idea is far more akin to Fire and Brimstone, you turn it on the AOE and turn it off for single.
    F&B -> instant cast, off gcd, affects 4 abilities, abilities hit all targets in 10 yds for 43% damage increased by mastery
    SoR -> instant cast, on gcd, affects 1 ability (per twitter), melee attacks hit all targets in 8 yds for 9% wpn damage, not increased by mastery

    You're right, exactly the same. Especially the part of turning it on and off costing gcd's.

    Granted the rest of your post holds some water, but you went off the rails at the end.
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  17. #1757
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelemar View Post
    I don't think HoW is actually getting that much of a buff. Remember, Inq is gone, so the ability doesn't get the +30% anymore. And 268% + 30% from Inq = 348,4% - so there's that. Though 1% weapon damage will be more in WoD than it is in MoP now... we'll see how much more damage a 320% HoW will do.

    Oh and I really don't like the idea of tying HotR to Righteousness and CS to Truth that much. Doesn't make sense to me. I think they just do it for the sake of button bloat without considering the drawbacks of the additional GCD, as I can't imagine Blizzard removing the GCD on Seals.

    You have to remember though that hammer of wrath had already gained a a HUGE buff to it's damage when blizzard made it so 1 AP=1SP (before it was 1=.5)
    So with that change, hammer would have been hitting harder than it does on live WITH that change alone, then they buffed it AGAIN.

    With that in mind, i think hammer of wrath will be our #1 damage. it may even be such a large portion of our damage that outside of wings and execute range our dps could be flat out trash like SMF warriors were back in the first tier of MOP

  18. #1758
    Epic! Fredzilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reghame View Post
    You have to remember though that hammer of wrath had already gained a a HUGE buff to it's damage when blizzard made it so 1 AP=1SP (before it was 1=.5)
    So with that change, hammer would have been hitting harder than it does on live WITH that change alone, then they buffed it AGAIN.

    With that in mind, i think hammer of wrath will be our #1 damage. it may even be such a large portion of our damage that outside of wings and execute range our dps could be flat out trash like SMF warriors were back in the first tier of MOP
    Well as it is now on ST fights, or those close enough to them like malkorok, chances are it'll be your #1 damaging ability anyway, barring obscene 4pc luck.
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  19. #1759
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredzilla View Post
    Well as it is now on ST fights, or those close enough to them like malkorok, chances are it'll be your #1 damaging ability anyway, barring obscene 4pc luck.
    I suppose buffing it to an obscene degree might be their way of trying to compensate us for the removal of Inquisition (obviously under the assumption that the alpha notes are the slightest bit indicative of their intentions towards it - something I am sure Dakeshi will be glad to remind us we can make no qualified statements about before tuning passes ), but if that's the case, I suspect it'll backfire horribly.

    Not that I give a single winged intercourse about PvP (other than reviling it as an occasional obstruction to adequate PvE balance), but buffing HoW out the wazoo would only make current "Wings or Bust" status even more noticeable.

  20. #1760
    Legendary! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clash1 View Post
    I do not like Blade Flurry on my Rogue. And I definitely do not want the same playstyle on my Paladin. Why would they even think this is acceptable.

    Blade Flurry isn't even close to the mechanic/playstyle change they're thinking of making to seals...
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightfalls View Post
    I'd almost be positive that TV and DS should be usable in every seal, and only CS/HotR will change. Since that was a piss poor amount of damage anyway, I'm not so concerned if that's the case. It just means seal swapping might be more worth it in sustained AoE than now I'd imagine.

    I'd rather, though, just have no seals at all, or have something like the warrior stances with a defensive and offensive one. As I mentioned, maybe an offensive, defensive (self-healing) and healing (group healing) seal.

    What they're trying to do is what they had with warriors where certain abilities were only available in one stance like overpower and whirlwind (iirc). There's a reason why that was changed...
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    Quote Originally Posted by rad586 View Post
    It really reminds of the old warrior stances, just without losing resources. Something they wanted to move away from.

    100% correct, it was removed because it was in the way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredzilla View Post
    I dunno, enhance aoe is pretty god awful to get goin =P

    I know, that's why I said Ele and not Enh :P
    Last edited by Huntingbear_grimbatol; 2014-04-22 at 08:32 PM.
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