[WoD] Retribution Paladin Megathread

[nightfalls]

https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...73431616585728

A thing just happened.

Victory! But this doesn't solve another issue, Empowered Seals being not fun to use even if theoretically good damage.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Hey Paladins: We're planning to revert the changes to Seals and Hammer of the Righteous. Thanks for all your feedback. Keep it coming.

Heh Heh Heh Heh Heh


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Heh Heh Heh

[Deleted]

Victory! But this doesn't solve another issue, Empowered Seals being not fun to use even if theoretically good damage.

they should replace that piece of shit with something new and imaginative.
Maybe sacred shield?...

[Rheckameohs]

Victory! But this doesn't solve another issue, Empowered Seals being not fun to use even if theoretically good damage.

Ideally, it would cause Judgment to interact with seals like it used to, e.g. inflict more damage per stack of Censure. Hell, with SoR it could turn Judgment into a cleave, I'd be cool with that.

[Camaris]

https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...73431616585728

A thing just happened.

Wow. Encouraging to get not just a response, but a prompt one that acknowledges feedback. Even if it's a fluke, it's the best news we've had regarding Alpha this far.

[Vintersol]

I don't use CLC or whatever. I do use addons but nothing related to rotation.

Me neither. I have setup some weakauras to track inq, 4set bonus and holy power. Works fine for me.

https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...73431616585728

A thing just happened.

Great!

[Maegor]

In my opinion, the change that needs to happen with SoR to make it viable is to make all attacks trigger it, not just the melee attacks.

I'd love to see them answer Dakeshi's follow up question to that tweet where he asked about AoW.

- - - Updated - - -

Btw, who is Faytte?

[Rewyn]

I'm Faytte (Rewyn, Wyrmrest Accord). I main Prot but I also do Ret (I only just started Heroic SoO, so still kinda nub -.-)

[Maegor]

I'm Faytte (Rewyn, Wyrmrest Accord). I main Prot but I also do Ret (I only just started Heroic SoO, so still kinda nub -.-)

No worries, just see you tweeting and asking a lot of questions to the devs, so just curious. I'm a nub too, didn't start playing seriously until 5.2. Had about 8 months total WoW experience before that.

[Rewyn]

Yeah I'm probably over tweeting to be frank, but I got into a tizzy about the issues with the class. Trying to curb how vocal I've been (cry to much, people stop listening to you).

That said we have some fundamental issues which we kind of ignored up until now because for the most part seals have been set it and forget it. The idea of seal twisting have kind of cast a spot light on just how..dull the system is. It should not be an instance of Holy=Insight, Ret/Prot=the other two (and once in a blue moon ret might use its fourth).

If seals are a class feature, they should ~all~ be beneficial to ~all~ specs in some way, and give us flexibility/adaptability. It takes some re-imagining of what they are and what they do, but if done right out gameplay improves dramatically and the devs could much more easily implement their 'seal' twisting ideas. Don't force coal down peoples throats, cover it in sarancha sauce and bacon, makes it go down easier.

[Maegor]

Seems though twitter is one of fastest avenues (maybe not best due to limited chars) to get information from the devs and then be able to form an opinion and/or argument about that information.

Doubt they would have made this change to pally's so quick (less than 24 hrs after official patch notes) without some feedback on twitter beforehand. Gets them asking the questions among themselves anyway, and it goes straight to the game designers.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Yeah I'm probably over tweeting to be frank, but I got into a tizzy about the issues with the class. Trying to curb how vocal I've been (cry to much, people stop listening to you).

That said we have some fundamental issues which we kind of ignored up until now because for the most part seals have been set it and forget it. The idea of seal twisting have kind of cast a spot light on just how..dull the system is. It should not be an instance of Holy=Insight, Ret/Prot=the other two (and once in a blue moon ret might use its fourth).

If seals are a class feature, they should ~all~ be beneficial to ~all~ specs in some way, and give us flexibility/adaptability. It takes some re-imagining of what they are and what they do, but if done right out gameplay improves dramatically and the devs could much more easily implement their 'seal' twisting ideas. Don't force coal down peoples throats, cover it in sarancha sauce and bacon, makes it go down easier.

Pretty much what I said about Seals. They should all be unique in their own way. Course that idea itself is hard to brainstorm about.

[papajohn4]

There's a reason why people come to mmo-champ instead of elitistjerks for ret information... not saying they're wrong but no addon is required to play ret, makes it easier? sure at times. But if you're experienced enough/calm enough during combat to see your rotation go along there's absolutely no reason at all to have clc ret.
Easier =/= mandatory

Only addons I consider mandatory for raiding is Weak Auras, some form of bossmod for timers and maybe bar addon (bartender) so you can tidy things up, make keybindings easily and most importantly customize frames. (hide in combat, hide when not hovering over etc)

I'd be fine raiding with Weak Auras and DBM/other bossmod and bartender alone. The things you can do with weak auras is borderline cheating the game.

I use Weak Auras too and I can create auras that are much better than CLCret... all these rotation addons are simple a group of weak auras

[Smitus]

Maybe we should wait and test empowered seals out before overjumping to conclusions about the "fun" factor

[Maegor]

Maybe we should wait and test empowered seals out before overjumping to conclusions about the "fun" factor

They definitely create the most play style interaction, in respect to having to plan ahead so you can j and then switch back. Using empty globals to refresh buffs, not letting censure fall off a target in a two or three target fight, etc. I have a hard time believing the buffs are final. Attack speed changing to haste, Justice seal granted removal of snare effects, etc.

Overall, this tier has better ideas than what I think people want to give it credit for. If you don't want something involved -> FV, if you want another CD -> Seraph, if you want a lot of shit to track and plan for -> Seals. Something for everybody.

It's just the tuning that has to be worked out, mainly so that Seraph isn't shit in the first tier and then OP in the last tier. So that the benefit of seals is paid for in the cost of the maintenance, because in the first tier just maintaining buffs will *likely* cost ~13% of the duration (2 gcd uses to swap back and forth assuming 15-20% haste), and in the final tier maintenance will cost at least 10% of the of the duration (50% haste, if achievable).

[Elovan]

Glad to see they're listening and willing to renege on their changes based on feedback.

As far as Emp Seals I think it's a little unfair to want the talent to be changed if you don't like the thought of seal twisting, since there are two other options for the tier. There are a good number of paladins that are excited to have seal twisting back in some form, and since balancing hasn't gone through yet it's wrong to assume you'll be forced to take it. As long as the talents are all within 2-3% performance of each other it will be fine, since at that level personal playstyle will have more of an effect on dps than theoretical maximums.

[Lumineus]

Well that's all well and good. But I don't want Final Verdict to be nerfed to be "fair" to the other talents if (when) they turn out to be hot garbage and no one is willing to spec them. Emp. Seals needs some kind of buff. Seals off GCD would be one way to handle it, or the benefit of judging Righteousness could be increased substantially. Not sure what they can do for Seraphim, if it ends up balanced for last tier no one will want it before then, and if it's good in the first tier it will be the only choice.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

*snip*
Late to the party it seems, nice to see them removing the BS seal CS/HotR interaction.

[Maegor]

Well that's all well and good. But I don't want Final Verdict to be nerfed to be "fair" to the other talents if (when) they turn out to be hot garbage and no one is willing to spec them. Emp. Seals needs some kind of buff. Seals off GCD would be one way to handle it, or the benefit of judging Righteousness could be increased substantially. Not sure what they can do for Seraphim, if it ends up balanced for last tier no one will want it before then, and if it's good in the first tier it will be the only choice.

FV will fall behind on any encounter that has heavy aoe.

[Lumineus]

What tier are you playing in? Besides, despite this inherent "advantage," that ES and Seraphm share there have already been those here who want FV handicapped because it's "too passive" and "boring" as if Emp. Seals isn't, and Seraph won't just be macroed...