1. #2041
    Quote Originally Posted by Maegor View Post
    You can literally wipe your ass with what is written in the readiness tooltip. That's how much it's worth.
    I am just trying to somehow explain the 3 min cd on AW and find a logic behind it using all info we got so far. Otherwise i should go like [email protected]#@[email protected]!## etc

  2. #2042
    Legendary! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    At the end of beta when its confirmed readiness is shit you can call me a prophet I won't mind.
    I'll hold you too that, if you're right I'll call you a muppet forever! FOREVER!

    Just hold your horses/boats/whatever with jumping to conclusions, I agree that it looks grim (a lot of it) but we don't have any sort of information about scaling yet OR if class mechanics are final (which they're not). I think we all see the same as you do, but we chose to not flip out because of it because it's alpha. When beta comes around and more and more of us get access to servers to do hands on testing we can give constructive feedback to devs (not like they'll listen anyways.. *hurr, durr*) and hope they change things. Took them what? 2 days to get the shitstorm of seals/CS+HotR interaction before they backed off? Same thing can happen and don't forget that with the new system they have for implementing changes to live realms we can see hotfixes going better than they have before.

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  3. #2043
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Lol? empowered seals doesnt fill empty gcds more then likely it will clip gcds while giving -10% holy damage per attack u make while stuck in that mode.
    Not sure how an instant cast spell can "clip GCDs." Perhaps you meant that it would clip the CD of Judgment or CS, which is possible, since they clip each other all the time anyway. Actually it will clip the cooldown of Judgment regardless, if you try to maximize uptime of JoR without having SoR up. But in reality the CLC module will probably be programmed to let JoR fall off so that doesn't happen. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's a good thing to torpedo our haste scaling over an autoattack buff. I'm just saying haste won't help as much with Emp. Seals as it does without. It's a drawback inherent to the talent's functionality.
    OMG 13:37 - Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Cleave unto me, and I shall grant to thee the blessing of eternal salvation."

    And His disciples said unto Him, "Can we get Kings instead?"

  4. #2044
    Quote Originally Posted by wasp View Post
    I am just trying to somehow explain the 3 min cd on AW and find a logic behind it using all info we got so far. Otherwise i should go like [email protected]#@[email protected]!## etc
    You realize AW's cooldown has been 3 minutes for literally the entire expansion
    Smitus of <Solace>, previously of <SNF>

  5. #2045
    You realize they changed back it to 2min in the Shieldwall/Domination patch because 3min was crap? You'd think they would buff it to 1min with the removal of Guardian, especially if they want us to care about Readiness, but... it's Blizzard. "Paladin? What do? "
    OMG 13:37 - Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Cleave unto me, and I shall grant to thee the blessing of eternal salvation."

    And His disciples said unto Him, "Can we get Kings instead?"

  6. #2046
    Epic! Fredzilla's Avatar
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    The spell itself has always been 2 mins. We just got an invisible passive that reduced the CD by a minute. It's still 3 min base.
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  7. #2047
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Could you elaborate as to how it could work. I'm being sincere. No sarcasm here.
    It was more a comment on seals "empowering" the paladin, allowing them different abilities, than Warriors where stance changes would just effect how damage is dealt/taken.




    Quote Originally Posted by Smitus View Post
    The minimal seal dancing we do now with SoT/SoR already feels super tedious and they're not even attached to any maintenance buffs yet. I can't imagine making it any more fun

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    The ONLY way I could see seal swapping work is if not only are they on the GCD, but all seals also share a seal-unique 15s CD. As to prevent multiple buff stacking from being effective. This concept still works better with seals off GCD than on.

    edit: just caught up on thread a little. maybe a potential way seals ON GCD could work is if it cleared all our HP? But that wouldn't even fix the problem it just means you would have to time your seals so you had 0 HP when you wanted to swap.
    It's just too static as it is. Not saying the perfect answer would be tying spells to it (I would like to at least see it in action), but I do think they need to work on seals on a greater level. I don't think that on GCD or not, clearing HP would be a good way to go about things. You'd have to time your seal changes, but it's just too clunky.

    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    Sure, communism by idea is awesome but it didn't work for the russians, or the chinese or even the japanese but I'm sure America will make it work!

    Sarcasm aside stance dancing / seal dancing to unlock certain abilities are just obsticles, 2-3 target cleave is already a huge problem for rets and seal of righteous only becomes a dps increase if X is alive for Y seconds. That's not a problem they'll solve with this change, if anything they're making it worse by only allowing us accsess to one or the other. Imagine if fire mages were forced into arcane armor to use the time rollback thing or cat druids forced into bear form for thrash. Or like the warriors of old, overpower/whirlwind only usable while in X stance.
    Ehh, It'd be more like a Pickup truck might not be ideal for everybody, but for people who need the space/utilize the bed, it's the ideal choice.

    It'd be more punishing if all our AoE spells were tied to it, which seems to be just DS outside of it now. I did like being able to pick and choose the spells as required, that might just be me, but it could also mean we could get another slot freed up, for say, consecration. I mean, mobs inside Consecration could take X% more damage. That's just me not letting go of hope though.

    I do want to see something with seals done, and not saying it's the right choice, but I'm willing to see it tried. There have been plenty of changes which plenty of people didn't work, but with enough tuning, and feedback from both sides it came out right. Though, I'd be happy to go back to consumable seals. SotC always in my heart.


    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    [SIZE=1]

    Not that I consider myself "top" but I still use CLCret because I do a lot of raidcalling and watch raidframes etc. I don't follow CLCret blindly though (neither should anyone), it's just a helper to give you information, not what to do.
    Yeah, people can't take much of anything in this game for a be-all end-all. When people have ret rotational issues, I suggest using CLCRet, but to learn the actual rotation and what to do when, to maximize that.

    Sadly most people can't tell their foot from their nose though.



    TLDR; I want them to try anything. Right, or wrong, I'm glad to see them trying stuff with seals rather than just scrapping them. We're not even into Beta and I think they've got a lot of juices flowing, which we need. You need to try out plenty of "bad" ideas to get to a good one. Who knows what will come of it, but I'm glad it's still on the table. Who knows what will come of this, it's clear that they have their stance, and we're giving feedback and they are listening. I know we haven't got much news, but this is good to see so early on.

    Now give me Consecration back.
    -Retribution, the path of the protector or mender brought to it's natural conclusion; destroying evil before the weak need to be shielded from it, and before it can wound the innocent.
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  8. #2048
    The Undying Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    It was more a comment on seals "empowering" the paladin, allowing them different abilities, than Warriors where stance changes would just effect how damage is dealt/taken.

    That's kinda where I want them to go with. Sort of the same with Auras as well.

    Now give me Consecration back.
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  9. #2049
    Quote Originally Posted by Lumineus View Post
    Not sure how an instant cast spell can "clip GCDs." Perhaps you meant that it would clip the CD of Judgment or CS, which is possible, since they clip each other all the time anyway. Actually it will clip the cooldown of Judgment regardless, if you try to maximize uptime of JoR without having SoR up. But in reality the CLC module will probably be programmed to let JoR fall off so that doesn't happen. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's a good thing to torpedo our haste scaling over an autoattack buff. I'm just saying haste won't help as much with Emp. Seals as it does without. It's a drawback inherent to the talent's functionality.
    What he means is to maintain the buffs, you'll be switching seals when CS or J are ready to use, meaning it isn't an empty global that you're filling.

    I still question as to why you think haste won't be as valuable in emp seals. What it sadly does is create haste breakpoints, where adding the right amount of haste adds a global in that 20s. For example:
    Haste 0 5% 10% 15% 20% 25% 30% 35% 40% 45% 50%
    GCD 1.50 1.43 1.36 1.30 1.25 1.20 1.15 1.11 1.07 1.03 1.00
    # GCD's 13.33 14.00 14.67 15.33 16.00 16.67 17.33 18.00 18.67 19.33 20.00

    So haste values are more important where you create an extra global in that 20s period. And of course we all know there is a haste breakpoint at 40% for a 30s wing duration as well. So to get the 28th global in AW+SW and the 19th global during an emp seal buff duration, you need 42.5% haste.

    Also of note, if you don't take SW, then 35% is your breakpoint before 42.5%.
    Last edited by Maegor; 2014-04-25 at 07:43 PM.
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  10. #2050
    That's precisely the problem. The gaps in our "rotation" only exist because of clashing ability cooldowns in the first place. Once we de-clash CS and Judgement by stacking haste, where do you then put the extra seal casts, especially if you want to avoid sealing SoR for an entire Judgement cooldown?
    OMG 13:37 - Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Cleave unto me, and I shall grant to thee the blessing of eternal salvation."

    And His disciples said unto Him, "Can we get Kings instead?"

  11. #2051
    Quote Originally Posted by ipoststuff View Post
    Exorcism can't be just another range direct damage. Its mechanics need to be different than judgements. AoW atm fails to differentiate exorcism. And it doesnt need to benefit from Sword of Light. Just increase the ap coefficient.
    Sorry but i'd rather have extra scaling factors. Exo is shit and out of place

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maegor View Post
    One design goal they've stated is getting away from huge bursts. Lower bursts, more sustained. Of course we will have to see it.
    Then we need more attacks it is simply illogical to nuter our burst and keep us mechanically the same and expect wonderful results.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wasp View Post
    OK but if the cdr is affected by spell power(100% ap) thats awesome
    Not to be a dick but you cannot comprehend the tooltips so you should stop trying.

    I mean this in the nicest way possible

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    Quote Originally Posted by wasp View Post
    I am just trying to somehow explain the 3 min cd on AW and find a logic behind it using all info we got so far. Otherwise i should go like [email protected]#@[email protected]!## etc
    AW has a hidden 2 min aura for ret =/

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    Quote Originally Posted by wasp View Post
    We dont know the numbers yet. F/e if we stack readiness and lets say we hit 30% cdr, just cause retris need more, we get it from sp. Thus retris hit 60%(loool)cdr while others who stack readiness stay way lower. It sounds ok to me considering it shouldnt be easy to hit big numbers on %readiness.
    Forget my above posts my fucking brains just exploded. Staahp

  12. #2052
    The Undying Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Nein Nein Nein Nein
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  13. #2053
    God. RIP Retribution.

  14. #2054
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Nein Nein Nein Nein
    what just happened?

  15. #2055
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    what just happened?
    Something to do with your brains exploding I bet.

    Wasp, I truly hope you don't believe spell power has any chance of modifying the cooldown on any ability ever. The idea is absurd and unusable in the game. It's a tooltip bug, nothing more. There is no way in Hell, Hades, or any mythical afterlife ever, that AW, or any cooldown for any class, will get its cooldown time reduced by spell power or attack power. AP and SP are solely to determine the power of an ability, hence why power is in the names of said stats.

    And so what if AW is at 3 minutes or 2 minutes? Both times are totally fine for major cooldowns.
    Last edited by Jackielope; 2014-04-26 at 05:14 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Everything Nice View Post
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  16. #2056
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope View Post
    Something to do with your brains exploding I bet.
    I'm just dumbfounded by some things I read. Veins literally pop from my forehead reading certain things.

  17. #2057
    Quote Originally Posted by Thorsson7 View Post
    God. RIP Retribution.
    Whats up??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope View Post
    Wasp, I truly hope you don't believe spell power has any chance of modifying the cooldown on any ability ever. The idea is absurd and unusable in the game. It's a tooltip bug, nothing more. There is no way in Hell, Hades, or any mythical afterlife ever, that AW, or any cooldown for any class, will get its cooldown time reduced by spell power or attack power. AP and SP are solely to determine the power of an ability, hence why power is in the names of said stats.

    And so what if AW is at 3 minutes or 2 minutes? Both times are totally fine for major cooldowns.
    nah ofc i dont m8, but i do believe they will give us a way to reduce the AW cd. But 3 min up from 2 is huge change especially for us since we are so AW dependent.

  18. #2058
    Epic! Fredzilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wasp View Post
    Whats up??

    - - - Updated - - -



    nah ofc i dont m8, but i do believe they will give us a way to reduce the AW cd. But 3 min up from 2 is huge change especially for us since we are so AW dependent.
    It's exactly where we were pre-4pc in t14
    "You little hoochees!" - Daos, Lord of Terror

    Quote Originally Posted by PraisetheSun View Post
    "NEENER-NEENER RETS ARE WIENERS."

  19. #2059
    Quote Originally Posted by Fredzilla View Post
    It's exactly where we were pre-4pc in t14
    Well i had a break when cata came up and returned at 5.4 so i missed all that fun :P

  20. #2060
    AW is still 2 minutes for Ret. I don't get why you'd think it's 3.

    http://beta.wowdb.com/spells/53503-sword-of-light

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