[WoD] Holy Paladin Megathread

[Asur]

They listed holy light in Holy Paladin's list of efficient spells.

Divine light is being renamed to holy light im sure since the holy light of now is being removed.

[Erous]

I'd like to see wog go away or holy power go away with lod. I didn't remotely like healing in MoP, especially towards the end. Just like I didn't like healing In dragon soul. I don't get a need for an efficient aoe spot heal. It makes absolutely no sense to me. I'd rather pick a spell, in this case holy light and spot heal. I'm getting tired of having to mindlessly build up a healing resource while also having to watch mana. I'm not saying it's a difficult its just redundant.

I sort of digged cata where you could judge for mana/haste because it put us back in the action. I'd like to see something added that mixes it up a bit

[Freia]

Divine light is being renamed to holy light im sure since the holy light of now is being removed.

I know. Seweryn didn't know. You should actually read what is quoted/conversation before feeling the need to explain this.

I'd like to see wog go away or holy power go away with lod. I didn't remotely like healing in MoP, especially towards the end. Just like I didn't like healing In dragon soul. I don't get a need for an efficient aoe spot heal. It makes absolutely no sense to me. I'd rather pick a spell, in this case holy light and spot heal. I'm getting tired of having to mindlessly build up a healing resource while also having to watch mana. I'm not saying it's a difficult its just redundant.

I sort of digged cata where you could judge for mana/haste because it put us back in the action. I'd like to see something added that mixes it up a bit

And I would rather not spam 1 spell a whole fight.

[Erous]

And I would rather not spam 1 spell a whole fight.

Neither do I but why do you need 2 aoe spells. Why can't you spot heal with holy light, big heal with flash of light and aoe heal with radiance or lod. Oh shit with loh and transfer heals with beacon. Why do we need another big heal that requires a resource other than mana.

That's also why I said they needed to add a mixup ability in there. Maybe make sacred shield viable like it was back in the day and return judging for haste/mana or heals per swing on the boss as a spot heal. Use your imagination. Why do we have to be stuck with 2 resources and a necessity for spells to be reliant of that.

[Freia]

Neither do I but why do you need 2 aoe spells. Why can't you spot heal with holy light, big heal with flash of light and aoe heal with radiance or lod. Oh shit with loh and transfer heals with beacon. Why do we need another big heal that requires a resource other than mana.

That's also why I said they needed to add a mixup ability in there. Maybe make sacred shield viable like it was back in the day and return judging for haste/mana or heals per swing on the boss as a spot heal. Use your imagination. Why do we have to be stuck with 2 resources and a necessity for spells to be reliant of that.

Unless they say they are going to change Holy Radiance mechanics(as in make it not shit), I do not want them to say they are taking other spells away.

[luc54]

I don't know how they are going to implement that double beacon talent. It's going to be very awkward to try to use it if it removes the first beacon and replaces it with new one. It's going to be annoying as well if you want to keep one beacon on tank and keep moving the 2nd one around depending on situation. I hope they try to change the talent or make other ones more viable. I shudder thinking having to manage 2 beacons while managing SS as our playstyle at start.

[Lovestar]

My suggestion was to make casting Beacon twice on one target convert it into SuperBeacon which stays put when you recast your normal Beacon.

So you double-cast it on a tank so they have SuperBeacon of Light, then you're free to move your normal Beacon around to anyone else you want.

If you want someone else to have SuperBeacon, doublecast it again.

My reasoning is that you're unlikely to move your primary Beacon as often as you are to move your second Beacon.

[Pasture]

I don't know how they are going to implement that double beacon talent. It's going to be very awkward to try to use it if it removes the first beacon and replaces it with new one. It's going to be annoying as well if you want to keep one beacon on tank and keep moving the 2nd one around depending on situation. I hope they try to change the talent or make other ones more viable. I shudder thinking having to manage 2 beacons while managing SS as our playstyle at start.

Well they can just give us two beacons that are technically different spells so they can be moved around independent of one another. It'd be pretty annoying and clunky to have to have two on your action bar but it's already annoying and clunky anyway and this gives more control.

They could give us a glyph that 'merges' the two beacons to create one double strength beacon, though in today's environment where the tank barely needs healing it would probably just be a waste anyway. But, it could potentially bring that play back where the Paladin can bomb the raid to heal the tank.

But yes, double beacon sounds like it has the potential to be really messy in practice.

If all goes to plan with the healing changes / raid damage and the raid /tank stay below 100% for long periods of time beacon could be much more useful than it is now.

[Lovestar]

Re: tank healing there's a Tweet or two suggesting that a combination of Vengeance being tuned way back and smart heals being cut down is part of a chain-reaction plan they have to tone down tank independence.

I'm reading between the lines a bit, but that's the implication I'm getting from summing all the comments.

[Freia]

Right now, they said when you put down the third it removes the first one. So yes is is going to be clunky as hell if they do not change it.

[Jackielope]

With the changes to lower button bloat for everyone, they might be convinced to make double beacon have two buttons if we have enough constructive commentary on it having issues with the leapfrog approach. The key to that point is -constructive- commentary since they respond best to that after all.

[Lovestar]

Brainstorming more interesting Beacon-flavored talents: What if you had a spell that let you spend overhealing absorbed by Beacon, like an ST 'bomb' version of the Druid Rejuv-overheal-absorbing mushroom explosion?

[Pasture]

If the current Beacon glyph stays I don't see anything wrong with the "clunky" double beacon. It's already one of the easiest and brainless healing mechanics in the game, so I'm all for adding depth and micromanaging in beacon, and anywhere else for that matter.

Most people will still end up just keeping their beacons on the same targets the whole fight though

You can't properly micromanage it though.

Realistically speaking you're always going to want one beacon on the tank and to move the other one around as needed. You'll micromanage one and leave the first alone. The problem is every time you beacon a new target you lose your original beacon, which you probably didn't want.

Beacon 1: On the Tank.
Beacon 2: Raid member 1 with a dot.

The dot gets applied to a new raid member as the original dot wears off. You beacon the new raid member.

Beacon 1: Raid member 2 with a dot.
Beacon 2: Raid member 1 with a dot.

You've lost your tank beacon and there's a beacon left on a target you didn't want a beacon on. Now you have to re-beacon the tank to remove the beacon off raid member 1. Yes it's micromanaging, but in all the wrong ways. You lose control of one of your beacons and have to continually reapply one every time you move the other.

I'm certain it won't go live.

[Freia]

If the current Beacon glyph stays I don't see anything wrong with the "clunky" double beacon. It's already one of the easiest and brainless healing mechanics in the game, so I'm all for adding depth and micromanaging in beacon, and anywhere else for that matter.

Most people will still end up just keeping their beacons on the same targets the whole fight though

That isn't depth, that is horrible mechanics. No one is complaining about switching beacons, they are complaining about not being able to choose which one to move. It is horrible that you will almost always have to switch both beacons when you want to maintain it on the same target for awhile. Making the extra beacon a separate spell would alleviate some of that but the people who don't min/max and hate having extra abilities on their bar will complain (that is one of the reasons you will commonly see people take DP over HA, so they don't have to use another spot on their action bar).

And as for the beacon glyph, that should have been made baseline a long time ago.

Also hoping that whatever they replace Seal of Faith with is actually a worthwhile talent.

[morislayer]

Brainstorming more interesting Beacon-flavored talents: What if you had a spell that let you spend overhealing absorbed by Beacon, like an ST 'bomb' version of the Druid Rejuv-overheal-absorbing mushroom explosion?

Very good idea. Make it a Super hot on the beacon target me thinks.

Also I as discussed earlier I saw on front page shrooms % Effl are baked together. Now of all the "smart" and casting bullshit blizzard poured out for WoD they keep the dumbest healing with the best throughput ever for healing in game and cripple, literally, paladins movement. Design as intended....

My panic level has raised to orange

[PosPosPos]

That isn't depth, that is horrible mechanics. No one is complaining about switching beacons, they are complaining about not being able to choose which one to move. It is horrible that you will almost always have to switch both beacons when you want to maintain it on the same target for awhile. Making the extra beacon a separate spell would alleviate some of that but the people who don't min/max and hate having extra abilities on their bar will complain (that is one of the reasons you will commonly see people take DP over HA, so they don't have to use another spot on their action bar).

And as for the beacon glyph, that should have been made baseline a long time ago.

Also hoping that whatever they replace Seal of Faith with is actually a worthwhile talent.

Well, considering they are shaving holy light/divine light off our bars, this will just be a replacement to it if they made it a second bind.

[Obsession]

Luckily, we are still extremely versatile with the Hand options and a combination of our three self-throughput increases can be quite potent when underhealing.

I wouldn't be surprised if some Hand options are removed or merged in some way, the biggest thing they are doing with 6.0 is removing a lot of button clutter and I wouldn't be surprised if some of them are on the chopping block.

WoG/EF not being instant is a terrible PvP mistake. I like the 2 beacon thing, but I wish they would make it 2 buttons instead of 1.

[Lovestar]

If they make it a separate button I'd rather they just make it a unique spell too. Beacon-flavored, but its own distinct thing.

Having 2 buttons that apply separate copies of the exact same ability is Godzilla-vs-Tokyo level of 'clunk'.

[Freia]

I wouldn't be surprised if some Hand options are removed or merged in some way, the biggest thing they are doing with 6.0 is removing a lot of button clutter and I wouldn't be surprised if some of them are on the chopping block.

WoG/EF not being instant is a terrible PvP mistake. I like the 2 beacon thing, but I wish they would make it 2 buttons instead of 1.

I don't think we will lose any of the hands. Paladins are really not that bad when it comes to ability bloat. I do foresee us losing some of out throughput cooldowns though(and the devs have definitely hinted at going that route).

[PosPosPos]

I don't think we will lose any of the hands. Paladins are really not that bad when it comes to ability bloat. I do foresee us losing some of out throughput cooldowns though(and the devs have definitely hinted at going that route).

I see holy pally as a class that does a little too much of everything remotely important as opposed to a class that has button bloat.

In some ways, it is worse than having button bloat because our skills are situationally important whereas button bloat is generally not even under circumstances they are designed for, in the former you can't ignore, but in the latter, you can.