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  1. #701
    Quote Originally Posted by btard View Post
    dont cancel it. you were the #1 dude who told blizz that classes should be unique. this is your uniqueness, what makes cjl different from telluric currents or chakra + smite.
    "sorry boys i stood in fire but i had to complete my 4 sec channel to make the spell worth casting"

    best excuse for mythic raiding

    but sure keep comparing a 4 sec channel to a 2.5 sec cast or holy smite cast - really does your argument justice buddy

  2. #702
    oh you cant look in big wigs and cast it after a fire spawns, do you? are you the one who uses combat res before big nuke from boss? i dont think mythic raiding is for you then.

    btw you also asked blizzard to make abilities that require some skill to use, not faceroll ones.

  3. #703
    Quote Originally Posted by btard View Post
    oh you cant look in big wigs and cast it after a fire spawns, do you? are you the one who uses combat res before big nuke from boss? i dont think mythic raiding is for you then.

    btw you also asked blizzard to make abilities that require some skill to use, not faceroll ones.
    skill = standing still for 4 sec doing nothing

    i still dont understand what your point is. dp @ 7% is by far stronger than cjl.

  4. #704
    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    skill = standing still for 4 sec doing nothing
    you told me it's that hard

    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    i still dont understand what your point is. dp @ 7% is by far stronger than cjl.
    7% DP gives me nothing because i dont have extra holy power to use it for mana. holy paladin is about cheating holy power somehow and using it on EF/LoD. using DP kills the core mechanic of holy paladin unless you are bloated with holy power somehow.

  5. #705
    Quote Originally Posted by btard View Post
    you told me it's that hard



    7% DP gives me nothing because i dont have extra holy power to use it for mana. holy paladin is about cheating holy power somehow and using it on EF/LoD. using DP kills the core mechanic of holy paladin unless you are bloated with holy power somehow.
    you gain mana tho now:

    Divine Plea: Instantly regain 7.0% of maximum mana.
    Holy Light: Now 11.5% of base mana, down from 18.5%.
    Holy Radiance: Now 44.0% of base mana, down from 49.0%.
    Holy Shock: Now 9.5% of base mana, down from 15.0%.

    using live numbers (60k base mana, 300k max mana):

    holy shock @ 9.5% = 5700 mana cost * 3 = 17100
    dp @ 7% max mana = return is 21000

    happy now? you actually gain mana. now that's what i call op

  6. #706
    now i dont need divine plea either... these numbers are too low, passive mana regen would be enough

  7. #707
    Quote Originally Posted by btard View Post
    now i dont need divine plea either... these numbers are too low, passive mana regen would be enough
    How do you know? We haven't seen ANYTHING about what our passive regen will look like. Also, if you not using your mana, you're not hitting your buttons hard enough. I can pretty much guarantee that I'll stack haste until I can outcast my passive regen.

  8. #708
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    because cjl does no dmg in the stance it restores mana
    Source? I see 100% more damage in patch notes, not 100% less.

  9. #709
    Quote Originally Posted by nightfalls View Post
    Source? I see 100% more damage in patch notes, not 100% less.
    thats in dps form. we got told by celestalon that it deals no dmg in (or well, negligible) serpent stance.

  10. #710
    holy shock @ 9.5% = 5700 mana cost * 3 = 17100
    dp @ 7% max mana = return is 21000
    yay 15-20 sec of 0 healing to regen 4k mana.

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  11. #711
    Quote Originally Posted by Masterik View Post
    yay 15-20 sec of 0 healing to regen 4k mana.

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    That's not actually accurate at all. The values I've heard floated around for WoD mana pools are 32k base and 160k max. The most efficient rotation will be HS, HLx2 on the Beacon for a total of 10.4k mana spent to gain 11.2k mana. That makes us mana positive in regen mode and we never have to stop healing.

  12. #712
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyrotten View Post
    That's not actually accurate at all. The values I've heard floated around for WoD mana pools are 32k base and 160k max. The most efficient rotation will be HS, HLx2 on the Beacon for a total of 10.4k mana spent to gain 11.2k mana. That makes us mana positive in regen mode and we never have to stop healing.
    And monks spamming Soothing Mist is mana-positive today. We might get mana nerfed, or maybe other healers are all intended to use low-throughput, slow cheap heals without losing mana at base. Not sure, but I'm at least confident we'll be balanced in that direction for now (it seems so much easier without spirit as a major factor, to be honest).

    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    thats in dps form. we got told by celestalon that it deals no dmg in (or well, negligible) serpent stance.
    Can you link the tweet again? Is it recent, or weeks old? And "negligible" is one thing versus "zero," to be quite frank today when I stop healing and do nothing but spam Denounce like a train, I'm doing "negligible" damage (it is seriously pathetic), no healing, losing mana.

    Perhaps that's how Denounce damage will be too in Warlords also. My sympathy there is quite evaporated.

  13. #713
    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    using live numbers (60k base mana, 300k max mana)
    But aren't they getting rid of "base" <anything> for WoD?

    If they are, then the reduction in cost is only to compensate for base mana removal. I'm sure those numbers are just adjusted to make the spells equally effective in the new mana/regen system.

  14. #714
    Classes that mana and non-mana based specs have a passive that increased base mana to workable levels for healers/casters. So Druids, Paladins, Monks, Shaman all have base mana and base mana costs for a lot of spells. The passive is a 500% multiplier. They're obviously not getting rid of the concept of base mana.

    The mana balance we're seeing now seem more like they're turning some knobs in the models to find the regen sweet spot and to tune our active regen mechanics.

  15. #715
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyrotten View Post
    How do you know? We haven't seen ANYTHING about what our passive regen will look like. Also, if you not using your mana, you're not hitting your buttons hard enough. I can pretty much guarantee that I'll stack haste until I can outcast my passive regen.
    http://i.imgur.com/z3tBf.png MoP start 9400 spirit in blue gear
    that's about 4% max mana per 5 seconds with spirit flask
    i assume similar mana regen on WoD start

  16. #716
    Quote Originally Posted by nightfalls View Post
    And monks spamming Soothing Mist is mana-positive today. We might get mana nerfed, or maybe other healers are all intended to use low-throughput, slow cheap heals without losing mana at base. Not sure, but I'm at least confident we'll be balanced in that direction for now (it seems so much easier without spirit as a major factor, to be honest).



    Can you link the tweet again? Is it recent, or weeks old? And "negligible" is one thing versus "zero," to be quite frank today when I stop healing and do nothing but spam Denounce like a train, I'm doing "negligible" damage (it is seriously pathetic), no healing, losing mana.

    Perhaps that's how Denounce damage will be too in Warlords also. My sympathy there is quite evaporated.
    Denounce doesn't lock you in place for 4 seconds and if you cancel it while casting you don't lose any mana.

  17. #717
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyrotten View Post
    http://intplate.com/guides-2/whats-n...ds-of-draenor/

    WoG and EF buffed. All Level 90 talents nerfed.

    Mana costs on HL, HR and HS reduced.
    All healer classes are buffed, and mama cost are reduce. This might suggest passive/spirit regen is not good at the moment

  18. #718
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by masteryuri View Post
    Denounce doesn't lock you in place for 4 seconds and if you cancel it while casting you don't lose any mana.
    You don't use mana while cancelling CJL either, and you're not locked in place - you can cancel. (4 seconds is pretty harsh for CJL too, so that's not my vision of a good model, I'd go with more around 2.5-3).

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    Quote Originally Posted by btard View Post
    i assume similar mana regen on WoD start
    Probably a bad assumption. They want our total regen (base + active) to be around Throne of Thunder level, I believe. Active means bad players will have less, good players more.

  19. #719
    Quote Originally Posted by mezmer1411 View Post
    But aren't they getting rid of "base" <anything> for WoD?

    If they are, then the reduction in cost is only to compensate for base mana removal. I'm sure those numbers are just adjusted to make the spells equally effective in the new mana/regen system.
    They are only getting rid of base damage/healing/hp etc. for things that further scale from a stat. They are not planning to revert mana scaling to int back again and it will still be static.

    Quote Originally Posted by btard View Post
    http://i.imgur.com/z3tBf.png MoP start 9400 spirit in blue gear
    that's about 4% max mana per 5 seconds with spirit flask
    i assume similar mana regen on WoD start
    Wrong assumption. Read the dev watercooler about healing. It states pretty clearly that they want our base regen to be higher. So does pretty much every 2nd tweet about mana in WoD from blues.
    Last edited by BaltazarDZ; 2014-04-25 at 03:56 PM.

  20. #720
    does that mean that our regen will be greater than 4% max mana per 5 seconds?

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