[WoD] Holy Paladin Megathread

[Verdell]

Righteous Tithings: Paladin has a chance to take credit for other healers heals on logs. Preference to tranq, uplift, spirit shell, and healing tide.

I laughed at this. GGWP

[Deleted]

To answer the changes. The Divine Plea change is a joke. 4.5% mana for 3 Holy Power+GCD? Did someone fail math at Blizzard? Arcane Torrent is 3% mana or 1 Holy Power, so Divine Plea is half the reward even if we completely ignore the 1.5 sec gcd part.

Celestalon said Holy Paladins will prefer 1 Holy Power over getting that 3% mana on twitter. How is that happening again?

If WoG/Eternal Flame/LoD would just cost 4.5% mana instead, I would always use them instead.

The whole reason Paladin spells cost more then other similar spells is the added generated Holy Power. This new DP actually returns less then what you pay extra (AND costs a gcd to boot).

Meanwhile the other healers get to generate mana out of nothing. There will be encounters(i can give you many examples this tier) where you can get hard damage casts in the boss with no effect to your healing. That's free mana for every other healer except Paladin. The effect of this is insane on progression.

[nightfalls]

Meanwhile the other healers get to generate mana out of nothing. There will be encounters(i can give you many examples this tier) where you can get hard damage casts in the boss with no effect to your healing. That's free mana for every other healer except Paladin. The effect of this is insane on progression.

Free mana and free damage. Denounce needs to cost a lot less mana, and perhaps also give Holy Power if this is the way we are going.

Meanwhile, we can't generate HP without spending mana, and offensive Holy Shock forces us to sacrifice a far greater amount of efficient healing (both the generator and the spender) than say offensive Penance (you only sacrifice Penance) for less mana and less damage.

The only class IMO that has it worse are the druids.

[Deleted]

The only class IMO that has it worse are the druids.

Wrath is free and they can actually heal with rejuvenation+Dream of Cenarius+ level 100 no mana cost talent while innervating.

- - - Updated - - -

Free mana and free damage. Denounce needs to cost a lot less mana, and perhaps also give Holy Power if this is the way we are going.

Meanwhile, we can't generate HP without spending mana, and offensive Holy Shock forces us to sacrifice a far greater amount of efficient healing (both the generator and the spender) than say offensive Penance (you only sacrifice Penance) for less mana and less damage.

The only class IMO that has it worse are the druids.

Denounce needs to cost 0 and restore 1% mana.
DP needs to go away.

If we really need this active regen thing to go forward.


The alternative in which they buff the mana return from Divine Plea isn't a bright future either. Its either a future full of 3x Holy Light+HS or a future full of 2xHoly Radiance+Holy Shock+ Praying that Divine Purpose procs and gives you mana back and when it doesn't you're done for.

[btard]

Denounce needs to cost 0 and restore 1% mana.

they will never give us telluric currents.

[Deleted]

they will never give us telluric currents.

They gave it to every other healer except us so might as well.

[Lucyrotten]

I don't like the idea of "chance to give HP" at all for any spell. Denounce costing mana to return mana is dumb too. I feel like they are trying to give everyone TC but not make it feel like TC which makes the direction Floopa went more Pally-flavored but obviously that implementation isn't going to fly. I'd almost rather get our old DP back so we could heal through the regen at reduced efficiency since that did require some forethought. I know why they took it out but I wouldn't be opposed to getting it back.

[nightfalls]

Denounce needs to cost 0 and restore 1% mana.

We've seen this before under another name though, which is the old, old Power Word: Solace talent. And it sort of sucked if I remember.

[Floopa]

They gave it to every other healer except us so might as well.

tell ya what i'll trade your 3 HP (lets call it 3 chi) for 4.5% mana for my channeling CJL for 4 seconds.

pls say yes

[Deleted]

tell ya what i'll trade your 3 HP (lets call it 3 chi) for 4.5% mana for my channeling CJL for 4 seconds.

pls say yes

How are you still not banned from paladin forums?

Are you seriously saying you would like to transform 4 CHI(which are still easier/faster to generate then 3 HP but whatever) into 4.5% mana, while losing CJL+1 mana tea stack?

As I said before, I would cast an Eternal Flame/WoD/LoD that cost 4.5% of total mana all day. Likewise, if I was a mistweaver I'd cast an Uplift that cost 4.5%/2 of total mana all day as well. Converting HP/Chi into Mana at those ratios is just dumb .People lack so much vision nowadays

[Lumineux]

Celestalon said Holy Paladins will prefer 1 Holy Power over getting that 3% mana on twitter. How is that happening again?

He says that because no one at blizzard actually plays a holy paladin.

[Floopa]

How are you still not banned from paladin forums?

Are you seriously saying you would like to transform 4 CHI(which are still easier/faster to generate then 3 HP but whatever) into 4.5% mana, while losing CJL+1 mana tea stack?

considering cjl doesn't generate chi then yeh why not (at least from how all the notes read thus far)

besides, the 4.5% mana gain can be used during transitions and would scale so well with chi brew

why would i be banned from the pally forums? nothing im saying is wrong. 4.5% mana for hp sucks but it's probably better than being forced to channel for 8 sec to get 4% mana back.

also why 4 chi? if anything 2 chi = 3 hp because you can get 3 holy shocks off in the duration it takes to use rem twice.

[Deleted]

Are we at the part where we pretend only Rem generates Chi in WoD?

Tbh I think its more fun to just forget it about, let it be undertuned/useless, see it get buffed/abused with Divine Purpose/Holy Radiancex2+HS and mail a nice TOLD YOU SO to someone.

[btard]

Converting HP/Chi into Mana at those ratios is just dumb

converting hp to mana at any fixed ratio is dumb.
you will use DP only if this ratio is good enough, like 30% for 3 hp. you will use LoD only if it's 4.5% for 3hp. either way one finisher is gimped and has to be removed from action bar.

[Floopa]

Are we at the part where we pretend only Rem generates Chi in WoD?

c'mon, if you're not gonna include HR which you can spam i'm not gonna include SCK which i can spam (both are mana intensive).

granted the exchange you'd make for healing sucks but you're always using HS on cd anyway so you're not 'losing out' on HP, you're just losing out on healing. if you had an EF which was 100% OH, you'd be begging for a chance to regain 4.5% mana from it. maybe that's it's purpose entirely?

but yeah, cjl for mana is far worse than the pala 1. like i said i'd gladly trade

[Deleted]

if you had an EF which was 100% OH, you'd be begging for a chance to regain 4.5% mana from it. maybe that's it's purpose entirely?
e

There's also Chi Brew and Expel Harm. Holy Radiance has an insane mana cost in WoD(49% of base mana).

Even if you had a LoD that was 100% OH(EF sucks balls even in the new build) and you had 5 capped Holy Power, its more efficient not to spend the Holy Power on Divine Plea as long as damage happens in the next 18 seconds. And obviously if damage doesn't happen in the next 18 seconds, its a lot more efficient to just CJL,Smite,Lightning Bolt, Innervate+Wrath+Dream of Cenarius.

The answer is still Denounce not costing mana+ generating 1% mana per cast.

[Deleted]

Well i'm beginning to wonder why they even released the patch notes... They could have saved themselves a lot of bitching by waiting with that info dump and actually having an alpha to play. Even if it was just a select few raiders/public figures. Now we have a weird sandbox info notes and some pax code info.
Currently i feel like the devs have spent more time answering paladin twitter questions then working on the class. There are serious flaws right now with design and numbers that i don't understand.

Divine Plea. I don't understand why we even need this new Divine Plea. if we can spam holy light(current DL) untill we die according to celestalon either he was bullshitting during the interview or the fights require more mana then we can regen during or to much HPS. IF the other healer specs also need a lot more mana regen then why does ours work with holy avenger. Either it's to strong or to weak because we have this talent(assuming they actually balance something). They changed the old one because other classes had more mana regen and an easier ability. The live one is to easy so they removed it. And they added this because we have a "tactical" choice. Pretty weak i heal or regen? Makes me wish we had the old DP.

Selfless Healer Vs Eternal Flame. Faster generation and more mana efficient vs.. a 30 second hot that has been nerfed from what it was. You can pull the " they still need to do balance patches". But lets be honest we have an item squish so they have to be working on the balance numbers and so far they seem not ready for public alpha.

The Beacon of Faith talent seems so much stronger then the other 2. With the changes to healing "metagame" i do not see a need at all for saved by the light unless they design a boss mechanic to straight up kill somebody and we have to "prevent" it.
As for Beacon of Insight it's whack-a-mole with a twist: Follow the raidframes icon. Is there any class with more sad gameplay then this. It has a GCD... so we cast it then cast HL for 2.x seconds and pray nobody else sniped and caused the buff to move. Also it moves to the most injured target with no way to influence it it will likely be the first target of other healers. So i'm just imagining a lot of times where the buff moves before you even get a single holy light cast.

Bad idea is not working. because healing a beacon target does not generate the beacon heal.


Beacon of faith example: We keep Beacon of Faith on the active tank. We also macro every FoL/HL to include casting Beacon of Light on the target first. Because we combine it with the no GCD glyph we get freee holy power every other Holy Light cast. I don't think i need to do any math to tell people how stupid this is. I can't be the only one to think of this and i really doubt it's intended.

[Clrg]

channel for 8 sec to get 4% mana back.

They are removing the crit chance in mana tea?

[Deleted]

Beacon of faith example: We keep Beacon of Faith on the active tank. We also macro every FoL/HL to include casting Beacon of Light on the target first. Because we combine it with the no GCD glyph we get freee holy power every other Holy Light cast. I don't think i need to do any math to tell people how stupid this is. I can't be the only one to think of this and i really doubt it's intended.

Doesn't work. Beacon of Faith replicates the heal of the Beacon of Light. If you swap Beacon of Light to the target of your FoL/HL u won't get any healing from them to beacons :P.

[nightfalls]

A hypothetical but IMO more interesting version of Beacon of Insight I came up with is the following:

Add some extra limitations to recasting (for instance, CD or cast time). Instead of its current buff, have it function as a full Beacon of Light, in other words, you can trigger Tower of Radiance from it, and healing transfers just like Beacon of Light. However, now it lasts a limited duration, and will move every 10-15 seconds to a new injured target (smart move, like before). Like POM, it will just "fizzle" if there is no target to move to (so it isn't just a "smarter" Beacon of Faith).

Would it be "good" or even "better" than the current iteration? Dunno. But I think it's more interesting at least conceptually.