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  1. #1

    A good prot paladin..

    What defines a good prot pally? i am a 555ilvl prot paladin and i really would like to know what makes a prot paladin stand out from other prot paladins, is it the fact that i am the one that takes the least dmg of the tanks in my guild? is it because i can do bosses like Sha and Nazgrim with barely any healing but my EF. I would like to know how to see the difference between a good and a less skilled paladin (Gameplay wise) so that i can work on paladin with a more clear goal


    THX in advance

  2. #2
    Bad Pallies DPS blows. Their self healing sucks. They use Holy Avenger(unless its thok/malk but nothing else should ever spec HA).

    Thats basically what I personally think a bad pally is. Really its are you a good tank or not. All tanks can(for the most part) be amazing self healing and dps if you use them right.


  3. #3
    The most important thing is really shared by all classes and specs. Always be doing something. Never be idle even for a few seconds. It's like this poet said, "how dull it is to pause." Other than that, a few things to keep an eye for. I'm assuming you're already comfortable with all the Hand spells, using them on yourself and on the raid, all at a time when full benefit can be gained from them. Cuz that defines any good Paladin, not just Prot ones.

    EF is not just to heal yourself. Strong vengeanced-out EFs are pretty good on raid members/other tank, so are strong Light's Hammers. You're practically a 3rd raid healer on Malkorok (if you're two healing), and other boss fights. Many Prot Paladins capably solo heal both Spoils rooms with early healer deaths. Also ending Malkorok with 150k+ HPS feels pretty good

    Active mitigation. While many say it's a no brainer mechanic and you can just spam it as HP builds up, clever use of it makes for a better Prot Paladin. Use it freely but never put yourself in the position where you'd be HP starved right when you need it active. On Garrosh, for example, i've seen numerous tank deaths happen right after the off-tank taunts. For progressing guilds/low gear, you should taunt and simultaneously Shield of the Righteous.

    Can't think of anything else other than change glyphs depending on the fight. Stuns on Holy Wrath, single target Avenger's Shield, Hand of Sac, etc...
    I worry there's three of me, and each of us is blind.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Basemath View Post
    The most important thing is really shared by all classes and specs. Always be doing something. Never be idle even for a few seconds. It's like this poet said, "how dull it is to pause." Other than that, a few things to keep an eye for. I'm assuming you're already comfortable with all the Hand spells, using them on yourself and on the raid, all at a time when full benefit can be gained from them. Cuz that defines any good Paladin, not just Prot ones.

    EF is not just to heal yourself. Strong vengeanced-out EFs are pretty good on raid members/other tank, so are strong Light's Hammers. You're practically a 3rd raid healer on Malkorok (if you're two healing), and other boss fights. Many Prot Paladins capably solo heal both Spoils rooms with early healer deaths. Also ending Malkorok with 150k+ HPS feels pretty good

    Active mitigation. While many say it's a no brainer mechanic and you can just spam it as HP builds up, clever use of it makes for a better Prot Paladin. Use it freely but never put yourself in the position where you'd be HP starved right when you need it active. On Garrosh, for example, i've seen numerous tank deaths happen right after the off-tank taunts. For progressing guilds/low gear, you should taunt and simultaneously Shield of the Righteous.

    Can't think of anything else other than change glyphs depending on the fight. Stuns on Holy Wrath, single target Avenger's Shield, Hand of Sac, etc...
    Hmm, seems like i`m doing things right then, i`m usually 3rd on Healing when we go 2 healers, i am always debating on either using Hammer of light or holy prism, holy prism is awesome because of the burst healing you get, 300k crits ftw. i always use my hands on people when needed, other than that it seems that prot paladins are more centred around helping the raid as a whole than just surviving

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Demsi View Post
    What defines a good prot pally?
    A good prot pally - a good tank in general - doesn't die and give his/her healer enough time to heal him/her up ("It so much easier to heal you compared to others." might be the most important statement about a good tank). Additionally this tank holds aggro whenever it is needed. Higher dps is usually not an indicator for a good tank, since it relies too much on high vengeance.

    Edit: Another characteristic of a good tank, and therefor a good prot pally, is how quickly he/she reacts if anything unpredicted happens. Additionally your raid suitability might be a nice bonus (eg. I find myself often as a supporting healer at Thok because of my high vengeance instant heals for chased people).
    Last edited by Homsel; 2014-02-12 at 09:30 AM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Jellospally View Post
    Bad Pallies DPS blows. Their self healing sucks. They use Holy Avenger(unless its thok/malk but nothing else should ever spec HA).

    Thats basically what I personally think a bad pally is. Really its are you a good tank or not. All tanks can(for the most part) be amazing self healing and dps if you use them right.
    HA is pretty useful for Paragons if you're taking Rikkal.

    OT: Knowing how to effectively use your utility spells is one way to stand out from other paladins. They have so much utility, it's honestly pretty crazy. Especially this tier, DA, HoP, HoS, LoH, all get used pretty frequently. Having good uptime on your buffs (EF,SotR, etc.) all help with this.

    There's also the obvious ways such as being able to dish out damage and know how to use vengeance to it's full potential (that DOESN'T mean whoring vengeance or taking unnecessary hits), as well as which talents to use for specific fights.
    Last edited by Vaeladin; 2014-02-12 at 10:04 AM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaeladin View Post
    HA is pretty useful for Paragons if you're taking Rikkal.
    Wait what? No it's not.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Demsi View Post
    Hmm, seems like i`m doing things right then, i`m usually 3rd on Healing when we go 2 healers.
    Nothing special about being 3rd since pretty much no other non healer can get that much hps - you should probably be close to or even above the healers on some fights.
    Armories:
    Pally: Chiaki
    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  8. #8
    HA is awful for Rikkal. On Heroic if you are tanking Rikkal hes not even near Skeer to help dps skeer so you just hold shields for injections heh.


  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Demsi View Post
    What defines a good prot pally? i am a 555ilvl prot paladin and i really would like to know what makes a prot paladin stand out from other prot paladins, is it the fact that i am the one that takes the least dmg of the tanks in my guild? is it because i can do bosses like Sha and Nazgrim with barely any healing but my EF. I would like to know how to see the difference between a good and a less skilled paladin (Gameplay wise) so that i can work on paladin with a more clear goal


    THX in advance
    Your answers implies that it's a tank that's doing his job decently or meets general expectation as a tank: to take damage. A good tank takes more than that. Generally a good tank always knows what to do. It's hard to describe precisely because there is no universal answer at all. Personally I wouldn't listen to any answer sounds like "if you are using XXX talent/glyph/ability then you are bad" or "if your XXX meter number looks like XXX then you are bad". They are offensive and also not true.

    I can think of few further questions that you can ask yourself: What does our group look like so that it needs me to take some specific talent/glyph or do something specific to make encounter easier? I have 6 talent choice 6 glyph choice, as well as 6 different trinkets, 2 metas, 2 cloaks, and many many differently gemmed/enchanted gears for tanking, for this specific encounter, what should I use? I have devo, BoP, Sac, Sal, Freedom, cleanse, LoH, as well as EF, LH, Purity, I can bubble while tanking, I can cancel and redo RF in fight, I can cheat death 3 times in a row, how can I make full use of all those utilities? When is it the time that I need to concentrate on taking as less damage as possible, when is it the time that I can safely neglect my damage taken but focus on dps output, when is the time I should do neither but focus on just healing, and how can I do that? What does my vengeance look like and how it is going to change, how do I manage my abilities in following 20 sec depending on that so to speak? What tank strat we have that works best for the group, maybe even go dps and let others tank, or maybe even bring a 15 ilvl lower alt but actually helps?

    Just something I can think of. If you are RL you need to work more on strat stuff, comprehending the fight at group level instead of individual level. But well it's another story.

  10. #10
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    IMO for any tank:

    * Hold threat in 99.999999% of circumstances (exception being with a vengeance-whoring cotank or DPS who wrongly taunts)
    * React quickly; for example in a dungeon if somebody pulls a stray pat, the tank is on it immediately before that person can get harmed
    * Knows when to use cooldowns and when to ask for externals; coordinates with healers
    * Performs boss mechanics to the best of their ability

    Note that I didn't include any feats of heroism like doing top DPS/healing or solo tanking, because that doesn't necessarily make you a good tank, although good tanks can often do that. Before I hung up the shield I always got accolades for tanking but I never focused on being the baddest or most macho tank, I focused on doing my job. IMO that's the most important thing. I've done some IMO "daring" feats in the past (soloing Chi Ji, at Cataclysm launch soloing the red/green boss in Heroic SFK from like 60% when the rest of the group died) but I don't think of those when I think whether or not I'm a good tank.
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  11. #11
    Herald of the Titans xebtria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homsel View Post
    ("It so much easier to heal you compared to others." might be the most important statement about a good tank)
    this. so much this. doesn't matter which class you are, but this.

  12. #12
    In my eyes, and this is meant especially for pallies, a good prot Pally extends his doings further than just tanking.
    A Paladin has a very big bag of Tools.

    To know them all, and use the right one in the right Situation is what makes it good. Not telling you that this is an easy Task.
    For example, back in TBC when DPS could pull aggro of the tank, giving the lock who probably aggroed some Mobs divine Intervention or that aggro reducing Thing BEFORE he died.
    Or giving a Hand of freedom to someone who kites adds which can slow.
    Possibilities are endless.

  13. #13
    Herald of the Titans xebtria's Avatar
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    while this is true, it is true for EVERY spec of a paladin, not just prot. you could DI as a ret or holy aswell (well back in the days you could). you can hand of freedom a kiter as every spec. you can hand of salvation as everyspec. this is not specific to a prot paladin.

  14. #14
    You survive 10 stacks on iron juggernaut without any externals.

  15. #15
    Speaking from my own opinion here...

    A good pally (or any tank for that matter) is someone who has basic understanding of how their class works (not just following some CLC rotation LOL)... You should be able to think for yourself on how to `counter` certain situations ( to yourself and the raid) and adapt to any situation thrown at you (e.g. Raids wiping but boss is at sub 10% or a little higher or w/e, why not keep going, you never know what will happen espically since paladins are SO strong solo tankers due to the high vengeance, or a different situation is your co tank dies, never give up ^^). Theres more to wow classes than just reading what Noxxic/Icy veins/ any top world raider could possibly inform you on.

    Being 3rd on healing when your guild 2 heals is no shocker, dosen't mean anything. The things i would personally judge a tank by is;
    - effective dps
    - damage taken
    - uptimes e.g. If a pally is using SS for whatever reason and the uptime is below 90%, i'd say they need to improve depending how low uptime is. EF is situational tbh depending if the pally has 4-set otherwise the uptime should ideally be as high as possible, very easy to keep it atleast 80%+. Shield of righteous / defensives too.


    Again it depends on the tanks job for a fight, a good fight to compare yourself or others on (that i find anyway) is Malkorok. And by `what job` i mean for example, Shamans - i personally recently started doing 100-200k dps as a prot pally on the logs... Which is absolutly horrible, but at the same time theirs a very good reason and thats doing 9-1 strat with me being on Kardis.

  16. #16
    Grunt
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lazel View Post
    You survive 10 stacks on iron juggernaut without any externals.
    yeah thats some crazyness lol.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazel View Post
    You survive 10 stacks on iron juggernaut without any externals.
    I count 4 externals. :P
    But that is actually badass.

  18. #18
    Pandaren Monk Spacebubble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jellospally View Post
    HA is awful for Rikkal. On Heroic if you are tanking Rikkal hes not even near Skeer to help dps skeer so you just hold shields for injections heh.
    Why wouldn't he be near skeer ? O.O

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    I count 4 externals. :P
    But that is actually badass.
    Now take a guess at how many times he died trying to do that in the past month :-)

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Jellospally View Post
    HA is awful for Rikkal. On Heroic if you are tanking Rikkal hes not even near Skeer to help dps skeer so you just hold shields for injections heh.
    After the first add spawn you can move Rikkal next to Skeer and still get to dps him from around 50% onwards.
    Still HA is completely pointless for him o0.

    On the topic of getting way too many stacks on some fights:
    Is solo tanking Haromm possible? Did it on normal with my warri and around 15 stacks on heroic is definitely doable, but how about more than that?
    Armories:
    Pally: Chiaki
    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Spacebubble View Post
    Why wouldn't he be near skeer ? O.O

    - - - Updated - - -



    Now take a guess at how many times he died trying to do that in the past month :-)

    First set of bloods go to Rikkal so he can't be near him on the pull. Also doing Iron Jug without outside CDs isnt that hard. ATM I only use Pain Sup at the 6th stack and I think I could do it without it.


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