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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by chaosjones View Post
    Sorry but i gotta ask do you even play hunter.

    If I pop stampede. in those seconds its up it increases my dps big time, And i am survival.
    Granted I am not a good hunter but even i can see how much dps it does. is it boring. i would not say so. its a ability that spawns our arsenal of pets.

    http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...30&end=2438608
    As you can see here it averages around 200k dps while its up. i would not say that is unimpactful dps cooldown.
    And you pop it once every few minutes as a fire and forget that you barely even see due to visual clutter in melee, it requires zero interactivity, while it also doesn't fit the themes they're trying to reinforce for the other two specs. It's boring in the sense that you don't do anything differently. Stampede available? Press it for more damage. Damage that you don't even see until you check the logs later and nothing changes. At least damage enhancers and Haste enhancers have a noticeable immediate impact on your numbers and gameplay.

    Sure, unimpactful may not have been the right word. But Stampede on a fucking Marksman who's supposed to be a military sharpshooter? Or Survival which is about animal venom and IEDs? It's a cooldown that felt out of place and led to more homogenization between our specs. Putting it as a talent leaves it on the table but makes it an option and not a core skill you have to use.
    Last edited by Bullettime; 2014-03-07 at 01:10 AM.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by zoth00 View Post
    Stop assuming that hunter equals guy with pet. I also love using a pet, but can totally see why so many people would rather play without one either for gameplay or stylistic reasons. I seriously hope the dps difference won't be large thus pushing most players away from the WOWY talent.
    In WoW hunter does equal pet traditionally pets have helped people hunt and it makes hunting much easier. that is one of the reasons dogs were domesticated.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Fang7986 View Post
    In WoW hunter does equal pet traditionally pets have helped people hunt and it makes hunting much easier. that is one of the reasons dogs were domesticated.
    Hunter in WoW is a broad class, much like Warrior, to cover the variety of archery and gun toting units in the game's lore. Everything from the Dwarven Riflemen to Elven Rangers to rugged beast loving wild men is represented in us, albeit poorly.

    A petless option gives those attracted to the classic rifleman and ranger archetype the customization they've been wanting for years. Pets are also a bloody nuisance on some encounters depending on how the room is designed or the mechanics.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullettime View Post
    Stampede available? Press it for more damage. Damage that you don't even see until you check the logs later and nothing changes. At least damage enhancers and Haste enhancers have a noticeable immediate impact on your numbers and gameplay.
    Isnt that how you use ES and BA aswell? So that must be replaced also? Not attaking, just asking?

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by GoKs View Post
    Isnt that how you use ES and BA aswell? So that must be replaced also? Not attaking, just asking?
    Explosive and Black Arrow are key parts of the standard rotation that you have to actively manage by having resources, using it correctly on cooldown, and keeping the DoT up.

    There's nothing to manage with Stampede though. You press it every 5 minutes (reduced with AoC) and move on with your life until it comes up again 5 minutes later. No interactivity required.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullettime View Post
    Explosive and Black Arrow are key parts of the standard rotation that you have to actively manage by having resources, using it correctly on cooldown, and keeping the DoT up.

    There's nothing to manage with Stampede though. You press it every 5 minutes (reduced with AoC) and move on with your life until it comes up again 5 minutes later. No interactivity required.
    Ah ok thank you for that explanation.

    Tbh I really like Stampede, most fights you can use it twice (AoC) so you can plan when to use it for burst damage, I really dont see what you want as a DPS cooldown? It does exactly that what it says, DPS burst on cooldown, same as AMoC (actually better then AMoC, since it does not have a focus cost), sure it does not do 25% of the bosses health in burst dmg, but heck it does help you to get your target down faster in a pinch if you need too.

    But that is just me, and every one is entitled to their own opinion and if you and others dont like it, then I guess it is good that they made it a talent so you dont have to take it if you dont want too. I just hope for your sake they give you something interesting to choose in its place, cause as it stands now (from what we saw) you have a choice of Stampede, Linxrush and AMoC, all of which I doubt would supply you with what you want.

  7. #107
    Which is exactly why they kept it as a talent and didn't ax it. You can still pick it up if you want but it's not a baseline core part of every Hunter. Personally love the option to remove Stampede's existence and just have Crows while others hate Crows but love Stampede.

    Instead of having a couple relatively boring burst cooldowns, you get to pick the one that you like the best. Want a really big burst at once? Stampede. Want lower burst but more frequently? Crows. Want persistent damage output? Blink.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Bullettime View Post
    Explosive and Black Arrow are key parts of the standard rotation that you have to actively manage by having resources, using it correctly on cooldown, and keeping the DoT up.

    There's nothing to manage with Stampede though. You press it every 5 minutes (reduced with AoC) and move on with your life until it comes up again 5 minutes later. No interactivity required.
    I can understand your point, it isn't a cooldown like Alter Time that is quite interactive. But to use it like you are suggesting is very basic play, to not wait for trinkets and the like so long as you won't lose a stampede through the fight. I get what you are trying to put across though, but that goes for a lot of CD's in the game.

  9. #109
    Flaming Shots is the most boring talent I have ever seen. Absolutely shit. I certainly hope this has yet to see a lot of iteration still.

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  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Alth View Post
    I can understand your point, it isn't a cooldown like Alter Time that is quite interactive. But to use it like you are suggesting is very basic play, to not wait for trinkets and the like so long as you won't lose a stampede through the fight. I get what you are trying to put across though, but that goes for a lot of CD's in the game.
    Point primarily with it is yeah while optimal usage has you syncing a cooldown with it and holding for them based on the duration of the encounter left to maximize usage, it's still largely fire and forget with its main redeeming factor of having a cool animation being lost in the clutter of melee unless using giant pets. That's the case I'm making with it.

    Sure, other DPS cooldowns can be boring "activate for 20% more damage" but you immediately feel the impact and feel more powerful as you see much larger numbers popping up on your screen. Things like Recklessness for example have a boring animation but you see crits galore. Or things like Paladin wings where you not only feel more powerful but get an awesome animation to go with. Stampede is largely a click and forget that you don't really feel or see more power in raid settings unless watching Recount or analyzing your logs post encounter. It's a complaint I have with pet cooldowns in general, but at least Crows has a nice visual.

    Even Rapid Fire has some more interactiveness with the increased Focus generation and super speed shots, though the cooldown is pretty weak.

    Quote Originally Posted by Herecius View Post
    Flaming Shots is the most boring talent I have ever seen. Absolutely shit. I certainly hope this has yet to see a lot of iteration still.
    Don't understand this either. It's basically "hey your auto shots deal 40% more damage!"
    Last edited by Bullettime; 2014-03-07 at 02:57 AM.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Illana View Post
    Focusing shot should give us 25 focus and then 50 focus over 5 seconds or something. Not all as one big lump.
    This. Let Focusing Shot empower your regen for a few seconds so that you have the opportunity to bleed off some of the focus as it comes. As it stands, it's lame.

    On the subject of the lack of Serpent Sting in the tooltip; there was a tweet that said Sting is passively applied as Survival from Arcane and Multi. I don't believe BM or Marks are capable of applying it at all -- which is why there's no need to refresh it via our focus gain shot anymore.

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  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Bullettime View Post
    Hunter in WoW is a broad class, much like Warrior, to cover the variety of archery and gun toting units in the game's lore. Everything from the Dwarven Riflemen to Elven Rangers to rugged beast loving wild men is represented in us, albeit poorly.

    A petless option gives those attracted to the classic rifleman and ranger archetype the customization they've been wanting for years. Pets are also a bloody nuisance on some encounters depending on how the room is designed or the mechanics.
    Agree - hunters represent everyone with bow/gun.. riflemans, snipers.. lone rangers..
    I didn't choose to play hunter because of pet.. i just love shooting arrows! mobility.. like ranged rogue..

  13. #113
    WoD looks interesting and makes me want to continue with the game... oh wait.

    All of the new talents look boring and they plan to make our only real dps cooldown a talent aswell?

    I'm not impressed.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Jubb View Post
    WoD looks interesting and makes me want to continue with the game... oh wait.

    All of the new talents look boring and they plan to make our only real dps cooldown a talent aswell?

    I'm not impressed.
    They are still experimenting. Took them a few weeks to change out alot of talents and abilities. Just wait until the actual beta until you start judging, because that´s where they start of showing the "final" product. Alpha is like "hey we got a game, and its.. hmm, yeah we dont know yet but ... ITS SOMETHING!"

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Paladzins View Post
    Agree - hunters represent everyone with bow/gun.. riflemans, snipers.. lone rangers..
    I didn't choose to play hunter because of pet.. i just love shooting arrows! mobility.. like ranged rogue..
    You did not just say that..

  16. #116
    On the disscusion on stampede being boring..

    Yes, it is. But so are almost all our other buttons.
    Hit KC on CD, pet does damage. Pet hits with auto attack, you might get some free focus. All those things happen passively. The only engaging mechanic is managing our focus and let's be honest, that's not that hard.
    In my opinion the class lacks depth, a more interwoven relation between it's skills.

    When I am playing my shaman I get to juggle alot of things, all working together. Do I have maximum stacks of searing flames on the target so my lava lash hits for its maximum amount? Will this add live long enough for my flame shock to tick through? Or do i hit the unleash elementsfor a harder lavalash instead? Do i have enough stacks of maelstorm weapon to cast a lightning bolt before stormstrike comes up?

    Of course, shamans for example don't have focus to maintain, but I would love to get more interaction between my spells.
    Just the passive Survival had in Cata where you did +15% damage to targets affected by Serpent Sting was a step in the right direction.
    That's my biggest hope for our mini-overhaul. Take away all the click-and-forget stuff and give us interaction. Spec identity will come naturally.
    Last edited by Zippoo; 2014-03-07 at 02:47 PM.

  17. #117
    Just to get into the whole "stampede is boring" kind of discussion. I completely understand why everyone think so, hell i do that too. And the reason is the clunky AI.
    The concept is really cool, but the way it turns out in-game is "meh" and for you to really notice it, it would require it being OP. But i think one solution would be to add new colour to the numbers that stampede do, to actually see the damage makes the ability feel better. It´s like playing Diablo for example, followers have never been fun, its a way to max out dmg out put that you wont really notice.

  18. #118
    With Stampede being a talent in the tier with one passive, which abilities will benefit from Reediness - RF and... FD? Also, they gave us Stampede to have strong long CD offensive ability. One thing is reduce number of CDs (BM defo had too many buttons to stack), but this is more, IMHO, "let's take an axe, swing it and see what will happen" approach.

  19. #119
    He picked BM, so all the talents that are pet based could/will change if you pick WoWY as MM/SV?

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by TheGosuStandard View Post
    He picked BM, so all the talents that are pet based could/will change if you pick WoWY as MM/SV?
    We don't know unfortunately. The guy simply went through the BM stuff and then went at it instead of investigating.

    We need to see the Survival and Marks grid to see the changes on things like Blink Strikes.

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