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  1. #1

    My most desired wishes for Rogues WOD

    1. More balanced Talent Tiers. Right now there is 1 choice on every tier that beats everything else out, like Subterfuge and elusiveness its quite boring and cookie cutter worse than ever before. I would love cheat death and shadowfocus to become viable options at least.

    I think it would be really cool if deadly throws interupt was combined with Shuriken toss and then deleted and replaced with something else like a passive survivability tool such as deadened nerves. Also restore applying non lethals to ST please.

    Elusiveness feint spam is the bane of my existence. Just make cheat death baseline for all rogues and replace both that and leeching poison with talents that Boost recuperate in some fashion please.

    2. Another viable spec for pvp for a change. Subs been optimal since season 8. Mutilate hasnt been anywhere close to viable Since season 8 in 1 comp, RLS or disc priest/rogue 2s and Combat has not been viable for Arenas since like season 1/s2.

    Just nerf find weakness and buff subs sustained dps and give rogues more passive survivability overall or make 1 spec much hardier I suggest combat. If combat had a better mechanic than combat insight+ more survivability than any other spec it would get played a lot in melee cleaves where its already semi doing well proved by Woundman.

    For mutilate change Vendetta as I suggested. Deadly poison also needs a huge buff or more damage needs to come from out combo builders again. Right now Mut is a dot spec yet the weakest in the game just look at DK, warlock dots or even the passive bleed warriors have. Consider restoring Overkill.

    I think Combat should be the hardest type to kill while also having big burst. Sub is already fine as its viable because of shadow dance. Mutilate should do the most damage on par with ferals and warriors.

    3. Related to 2. Replace or improve Vendetta, Its clunky and its boring. At the very least make it a buff on the rogue and not a debuff that can be dispelled stuck on one target. Mutilate is the most cooldown dependent spec in pvp when traditionally its been the No cooldown spec and yet we got stuck with the worst most boring dps cooldown in the game. If your dumping shadow blades just dump Vendetta as well.

    4. Energy not being tied to haste. Give us all the regen we would gain from haste upfront. Just increase energy regeneration from 10 to 12 or whatever its suppose to be in the last raid tier from the get go. I never even get to see a significant haste boost to my energy regen as a rogue who pvps there isnt enough haste on even the highest end pvp gear at the end of an xpac to make much of a difference.

    5. Unique set bonuses different for each spec even in PVP. Give deadly brew back to mutilate only. Give Sub Improved stealth or something, mutilate more energy from venomous wounds and combat some armor pen, maybe a passive enhanced expose armor of some kind.

    6. Buff recuperate or take it off battle fatigue in exchange for losing feint, or replace leeching poison with a talent that buffs recuperates healing and gives it a damage reduction.

    Biggest dampers to my enjoyment of my rogues I play in wow is Spamming feint in pvp and not having at least 1 3s comp where Mutilate is favored, abusing subterfuge and resets for survivability. Subterfuge is OP especially vs casters it was a terrible idea. It would also be nice to get back overkill, deadened nerves and cold blood.

    Here is a talent tree for Mop Rogues I spent a lot of time working on for fun check it out.


    http://wowtalentcreator.com/display.php?tree_id=6


    Thoughts? Someone should post this on the rogue forums for me on the official blizzard battle.net US website. I cannot myself because I am not currently subscribed to wow. If someone does thanks a bunch and make sure to say its by Moslin!

    My goals as stated on a comment I made below my tree on that website were to remove talents I thought were NOT FUN or were not working at all meaning they were lackluster and no one chose them.

    I want Tiers with better choices and far more survivability options due to how frail rogues are and have traditionally been throughout wow history.

    I dumped talents I thought were too strong now such as Elusiveness and Prey on the weak. I made adjustments to existing talents like shadow step and left a few talents Unchanged like 2 on the first tier and marked for death.

    I rolled deadly throw an shuriken into one spell but it no longer would generate auto attacking.

    Man that website is addicting. I love theory crafting and playing around with talents. I was absolutely in love with the Pre cata talents and I changed my talents almost every day trying to get the build just right for me. I made a lot of my own decisions even though I knew 1 or too cookie cutters were optimal.

    Thanks for reading.

    ~Old school rogue player.
    Last edited by oldschoolrogueplayer; 2014-03-14 at 08:26 PM. Reason: Clean up, more thoughtfulness

  2. #2
    Stood in the Fire zanexlol's Avatar
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    Nice font size. Should've ended with "you've got half an hour, or a hostage dies."

    I bet most rogue players want change, and we will get it, just not for the better.
    Yes, we are an ape with a symbiotic relationship to a mushroom.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by zanexlol View Post
    Nice font size. Should've ended with "you've got half an hour, or a hostage dies."

    I bet most rogue players want change, and we will get it, just not for the better.
    most likely. nice picture I love perfect circle.

  4. #4
    High Overlord
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    Wouldn't it be better to make this a question, asking what other players wishes for WoD? This feels like a blog post.

  5. #5
    Stood in the Fire intrinsc's Avatar
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    I'm a fairly new rogue player, but I wish the specs had more things to differentiate from each other. They all have fan of knives and crimson tempest. They all use rupture, slice and dice. I also wish that stealth was more involved in the specs for DPS other than just going into stealth and doing an ambush or two(although, subtlety already has interesting stealth dps mechanics).

  6. #6
    Crimson Tempest is an embarrassment of an class-wide ability. It's simply a trap spell for new players. It's something that sounds like you want to apply, but is suboptimal in essentially all situations for Mut and Combat. And it's strange, because both those two specs have their own unique way of dealing AoE damage. Currently, AoE is where the differences between the specs shine the most!

    Assassination: Tab around spreading Rupture w/ FoK as your CP generator.
    Combat: Stick on your main target w/ BF active
    Sub: FoK as your CP generator, CT as finisher

    Each of these styles works thematically their respective specs. Assassination is focused on applying poisons as many times as possible with FoK being fed by the additional energy regen from VW. Combat swings their weapons fast enough to even strike nearby foes. Subtlety uses CT to bleed everything around the rogue, creating an opening with Sang. Veins to take even more damage (also syncs nicely with Subs mastery). Why is CT even in the spellbook for the other specs?
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  7. #7
    I like the approach of undoing a lot of the shite that was added to the game in the last 3 expansions. TBC was really the only time I feel this game was any good and I think a lot of people would agree with me.

    Regarding PvP and rogues, they really need to differentiate the specs. Revert mutilate back to TBC playstyle. Make the spec focus on MASSIVE mutilate and envenom damage and pooling energy for these bursts. Get rid of the passive poison-bot playstyle and stupid rupture mechanics.

    Combat is ok I feel, they just need to take energy-regen off haste and increase base energy regen to 15/s.

    Subtlety is a mess. Find weakness makes the spec revolve around restealths and gay openers which isn't fun to play nor is it fun to play against. I'd reduce FW to 25%, increase backstab and hemo damage, and change the mechanics so that you don't have to drop combat to get an opener. Possibly a new finisher that grants a short-duration vanish (like the priest one) so rogues aren't constantly restealthing behind pillars, and getting an opener shouldn't be such a game-breaking damage boost if damage isn't tied to find weakness. I like the change to subterfuge for WoD.

  8. #8
    I am Murloc! Luko's Avatar
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    I feel like PVE rogues need a little attention. I understand that the class has almost always been thought of as that PVP class, but after a depressing conversation last night, I'm just hoping they've got something up their sleeve for the class design in general. A friend of mine came back after 4 years and had a laugh "Wow, aside from a few details I feel like I didn't miss a goddamn thing with rogues." And he's right. The class never changes. Every spec is a different thematic approach to the same build->Buff->build->finish playstyle.

    The class has always been a passion for me but I realized recently that it's also the largest contributor of my PVE experience feeling bland.
    Listen kiddos, trust Handsome Jack. You want every part of this insanity.
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  9. #9
    Cheat Death is always a viable Talent

  10. #10
    I'd like the legendary proc to come back in one form or another. We almost got it in MoP with a reworked KSp, but that didn't pan out.

    That thing was so much fun.

  11. #11
    Mechagnome DrArtorius's Avatar
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    They're giving monks something like KS but better...

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by DrArtorius View Post
    They're giving monks something like KS but better...
    It's KSp + Bubble. Pretty ridiculous.

    If you were referring to my comment about the legendary proc, 2011 Blizzcon had KSp as a talent that gave you 5 CP per use. If it were on the GCD, it would be KSp > finisher > KSp > finisher > KSp > finisher. That's basically half a legendary proc.

  13. #13
    Mechagnome DrArtorius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    It's KSp + Bubble. Pretty ridiculous.

    If you were referring to my comment about the legendary proc, 2011 Blizzcon had KSp as a talent that gave you 5 CP per use. If it were on the GCD, it would be KSp > finisher > KSp > finisher > KSp > finisher. That's basically half a legendary proc.
    Still better than something that can get you killed in my opinion, regardless I think that KS should make us immune to damage... Not being able to use it on Norushen without cloak for example is simply disgusting D:

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by intrinsc View Post
    I'm a fairly new rogue player, but I wish the specs had more things to differentiate from each other. They all have fan of knives and crimson tempest. They all use rupture, slice and dice. I also wish that stealth was more involved in the specs for DPS other than just going into stealth and doing an ambush or two(although, subtlety already has interesting stealth dps mechanics).
    I rather have working, meaningful abilities then different names for abilities which do the same thing still for each spec (damage, namely) and are somehow fuxxored up because idontknow.

    p.s.
    ae you the intrinsc known from RIFT?
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by oldschoolrogueplayer View Post
    1. More balanced Talent Tiers. Right now there is 1 choice on every tier that beats everything else out, like Subterfuge and elusiveness its quite boring and cookie cutter worse than ever before.
    It's annoying, becasue imo there are a lot of good Rogue talents there but it's the choices between them that are a PITA.

    Marked for Death, Shuriken Toss and Anticipation each address a serious issue with Rogues which, imo should all be fixed to help the class rather than making us choose between them all for every different fight. Sure Rogues as a class thematically shouldn't be pulling in high numbers ranged but then in that vein hunters shouldn't be just as good at point blank range while running about as they are stood still at a distance.

    I'm feeling a lot of the Rogue "flavour" things these days (ie Combo points on target, ramping up poisons+ruptures on various targets etc) are just hindrances compared to what other classes can do.

  16. #16
    I want Cata sub back.
    It's one of the things that kept me playing the last couple months of Cata.
    Last edited by Zhinkis; 2014-03-09 at 11:41 AM.

  17. #17
    the last month of cata, with the new patch, assassination was king. But before that Sub was fun, juggling four finishers was actually mildly challenging.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by rogueMatthias View Post
    Marked for Death, Shuriken Toss and Anticipation each address a serious issue with Rogues which, imo should all be fixed to help the class rather than making us choose between them all for every different fight. Sure Rogues as a class thematically shouldn't be pulling in high numbers ranged but then in that vein hunters shouldn't be just as good at point blank range while running about as they are stood still at a distance.

    I'm feeling a lot of the Rogue "flavour" things these days (ie Combo points on target, ramping up poisons+ruptures on various targets etc) are just hindrances compared to what other classes can do.
    I'm okay with combo points staying on target as long as Redirect has its cd removed or drastically lowered to 3 seconds or less.

    Shuriken Toss and Anticipation should be baseline. If they are concerned about balance just make Anticipation just store up to 3.

  19. #19
    Mechagnome DrArtorius's Avatar
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    I think Anticipation should be passive, even without shadow blades.

  20. #20
    I think anticipation needs an overhaul.

    It should last 30 seconds, be baseline, grant combo points on ALL finishers (including SnD and recup) but only store 1 additional combo point for combat and sub and 2 additional combo points for assassination. (this needs to happen or else the possibility of three back to back 5-pt finishers will happen if you take MfD, and that's a bad idea).

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