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  1. #1

    Models - different sizes, but not all races need them

    Yes, i'ts a lot of work, blizzard has 13 different sizes in game, the thing is each race has a unique size as well as features - compare this to say SwTOR - that instead have 4 different sizes of 1 model - BUT, that model has features for all it's 12 races, and they have a wide selection of distinct faces. Whereas in WoW you get only 2-3 faces per race tops, most have just 1. It's not a competition of who has done more work or who is better, be respectful of the artists who have done incredible work in both games. SwTOR models look outstanding, face rigs animation have their characters come off like movies in convos. Wow models might be old, but appreciated they did something unique for BOTH genders of up to 13 races, and added unique animations for each gender, SwTOR has animations based on class, and not separated on gender, with some of their mirror classes sharing some of those animations, whereas the WoW ones are unique. With redone models, wow should look much nicer.

    So I was thinking if the same thing with different sizes can be done for WoW, and realized the work load problem existed if you were going to create different sizes for ALL the races. Lets be a bit more realistic. I don't know how well this game can support sliders, but I know NOT every race really needs more than one size, only some, this reduces the work load considerably. So:

    ELIMINATING: Dwarf, Goblin, Gnome, Worgen, Tauren, Forsaken & Panderan - do not need different sizes.
    That's more than half the available races that don't need varying sizes created for them.

    The remaining are where popular demand and reason together has created a need. A slider might not be feasible at all, as only slight variations can be given with that, you're going to need a different model. However, it won't need different animations. This is a huge chunk of the work load. Theyj ust needto give the bigger size the same animations. The work may come in fitting for the gear.

    Races that We Want More Sizes Off
    Human, Night elf, Blood Elf, Draenei, Troll, Orc - could all do with an additional size or 2.

    Human = 3 sizes on male - skinny, normal, fat: 2 on female: normal and fat. = 3 new sizes
    Night Elf = 2 sizes on male - super bulky, and normal, 1 on female (you could have 2 - a more muscular fem for those crying for it.) = 1 or 2 new sizes
    Blood Elf = 2 sizes on male - slimmer male and normal male, 1 on female = 1 new size
    Draenei = 2 sizes on male - slimmer male, normal male, 2 on female = fatter female, normal female = 2 new sizes
    Troll = 2sizes on male - bulkier male, normal male, 1 on female = 1 new size
    Orc = 2 sizes on male - slimmer male, normal male, 3 on female, musclier/bulkier female, normal female, slimmer female = 3 new sizes

    a total of 12 new sizes and i'm counting both male and female.

    This ofc is alot less work than giving 1 new size per race = 26 new sizes
    or 2 new sizes per race = 52 new sizes.

    this might be feasible to do. And if you were to really stream line this:
    We could skip on a second musclier Nelf female
    We could skip on a slimmer blood elf male.
    WE could skip on slimmer Orc female

    Get that number down to 9 although the 12 would be better.

  2. #2
    I'd rather not sacrifice a raid tier in order to figure out how to pose each piece of armor on the new fat/skinny models. Bad idea.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Ssateneth View Post
    I'd rather not sacrifice a raid tier in order to figure out how to pose each piece of armor on the new fat/skinny models. Bad idea.
    They make armor on human males and then just let it do whatever on other races. They don't check to make sure it works properly on other races.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Ssateneth View Post
    I'd rather not sacrifice a raid tier
    Considering the current pacing it's probably more an entire addon.

  5. #5
    What would the point of it be? Why should Blizzard put in the effort, money, and time into creating these different sizes? How is it fair that only a select portion of them (likely races that you play) will get these extra sizes?

    WoW is not a game that lets you customize the size of your character's face, or eyebrows. It doesn't let you adjust waist size, or busts. It was never the intention of the game. If it was, the options would have come during launch.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by FayrenPickpocket View Post
    What would the point of it be? Why should Blizzard put in the effort, money, and time into creating these different sizes? How is it fair that only a select portion of them (likely races that you play) will get these extra sizes?

    WoW is not a game that lets you customize the size of your character's face, or eyebrows. It doesn't let you adjust waist size, or busts. It was never the intention of the game. If it was, the options would have come during launch.
    you can't know that for sure. What youget at launch is not what was intended, but what was feasible and possible to get up during that time frame. You don't make games like this and expect everyone in one race to be exactly the same size and build and assume it's exactly where it was meant to be - ofcc, when you do that work load, you have to draw a line somewhere you hope in the future you can go back to, now is the future of release.

    and why should blizzard put the effort into improving their game and giving more options to the millions of players that play? do i really need to answer that? or do you think the game won't be better if we had humans or elves or orcs of different sizes running around allowing more custimization for their favourite aspect of warcraft , their character..

    How is it fair only a select portion get these extra sizes? - it's not b/c that's what I play, - it's like telling a developer you've buffed x class because that's all you've played. No, i've played ever race, - the selection was made based on what seemed most feasible.

    seriously - are you going to give a Worgen or a Tauren multi-size options? sure you can, but that would be low priority compared to Human or Orc. Same with a dwarf or a gnome or a goblin, sure afatter or smaller versions could be cuter down the line, but lets start with the ones it is most expected, most realistic and who have their frames worthy of more variation simply if anything because they are played the most.

    Human
    Blood elf
    Night Elf
    Draenei
    Orc
    Forsaken
    Troll
    Tauren
    Dwarf
    Gnome

    is roughly the order of popularity when i last checked, give or take a few spots, but the top 3 have remained unchanged since TBC.

  7. #7
    Doesn't sound like a very good idea to me. The reason why you can't customize the face is that the devs created the face textures to be distinctly different (at least until WoD) while still staying very true to the feeling of this particular race. Same counts for the body, a fat version of for example a Draenei female would NOT fit in with the design and would be super awful tbh.

    You're probably inspired by an MMO like ESO or SWTOR to begin a thread like this, but know this:
    WoW has 26 very different body shapes (both male and female) and animations, while ESO and SWTOR only have 2 (m&f). Yes, you can create a fat character but your human will still look the same as your orc, twi-lek or whatever, just with a different face.

    I just mean to say: if you want to be a little fatter, roll a dwarf. If you want to be tall and elegant, create a night elf. I think that the diversity in the character models is between the races, not really between you and another character from the same race. And still you can stand out with different gear, hairstyle and colors and skintones.

    The design and animations (and especially now with the new character models) for the different races made them look so distinctive and that is why I think that WoW's characters are still the best of all MMO's I have played, yes GW2 and ESO included (GW2 has too many options, I can never be happy with what I have because I always feel that my eye color can be better and that I should gave my character a broader chin etc, no free barber shop <- this can kill an MMO for me)
    Last edited by Odile; 2014-04-23 at 10:59 PM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Odile View Post
    Doesn't sound like a very good idea to me. The reason why you can't customize the face is that the devs created the face textures to be distinctly different (at least until WoD) while still staying very true to the feeling of this particular race. Same counts for the body, a fat version of for example a Draenei female would NOT fit in with the design and would be super awful tbh.

    You're probably inspired by an MMO like ESO to begin a thread like this, but know this:
    WoW has 26 very different body shapes (both male and female) and animations, while ESO only has 2 (m&f). Yes, you can create a fat character but your human will still look the same as your orc, just with a different face.

    I just mean to say: if you want to be a little fatter, roll a dwarf. If you want to be tall and elegant, create a night elf. I think that the diversity in the character models is between the races, not really between you and another character from the same race. And still you can stand out with different gear, hairstyle and colors and skintones.

    The design and animations for the different races made them look so distinctive and that is why I think that WoW's characters are still the best of all MMO's I have played, yes GW2 and ESO included (GW2 has too many options, I can never be happy with what I have because I always feel that my eye color can be better and that I should gave my character a broader chin etc, no free barber shop <- this can kill an MMO for me)
    yep, agree with most of what you said there, altho the inspiration was not ESO, and yes ESO essentially has only 2, well 6 cos the Lizard people and the cat/dog people are also totally different models, SWTOR has 8, WoW has 26

    wow has done a lot more work, because each race has distinct animations, ESO as far as i've seen aLL the races have the exact same animations, i haven't checked everyone out so could be wrong, SWTOR animates dieifferently, they animated based on class rather than race, they weren't that fussy about having unique races.. but then they don't need to be, SWTOR has STar wars already defined all their races, warcraft had to do a lot of theirs from scratch, on one hand to further distinguish them from typical orc/elf/dwarf/troll races of other fantasy genres, then ofc to also define their own creation races like Draenei, Panderan, Worgen so for them it is necessary for SWTOR it isn't. ESO copped out. Wildstar is in the same boat as WoW.

    For WOw now to go in and do more body types would be work, I'm not denying that at all. What they could do is adapt existing races for other races.. i.e. you can make human versions of draenei, night elf, panderan, blood elf etc to serve as different body types: it's not necessarily easier, it jsut saes initial design work, because if youw anted to maintain unique feel, you'd have to give all those silhouettes human animations and ensure you got variations for each face right too. haha, no chance.

    WoW's RACES are the most extensive, that is still true, they are not the best looking though, given their age and their style you will have others, easily Tera, SwTOR, FFXIV and a few others have better looking models, by some distance, but that may change after we see the finished version of what they're working on. WoW does give you the greatest diversity and that has ever been its strongest suit, and for me it's biggest attraction.

    however surely you have played with the idea of a fat Draenei female, overweight ..hehe.. would bring a bit more perspective to the races. for example it would stand out all the more that no Elves are overweight - whiles with humans you get skinny, you get really short, you get fat, all sorts it would show things.... if only though huh.,
    they could probably have set just one person to only work on this and i bet in 5 years we'd have got a sihouette of each race for every other race, coplete with proper features. .. where the lore would allow. The lore would not allow for a chubby elf for e.g. nor a skinny dwarf.

  9. #9
    I think I'd rather have subrace customisation options rather than just different sizes.

  10. #10
    They should have scrapped new models as it is. I don't want them wasting more time making different size models.

  11. #11
    Over 9000! Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    They make armor on human males and then just let it do whatever on other races. They don't check to make sure it works properly on other races.
    They make helmet models for every single race and sex. Yes, even blood elves and humans and night elves... because the way they're posed on the heads in relation to the bodies doesn't always match up.

    Meaning they'd have to make more.
    "Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen
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    Words to live by.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    They make helmet models for every single race and sex. Yes, even blood elves and humans and night elves... because the way they're posed on the heads in relation to the bodies doesn't always match up.

    Meaning they'd have to make more.


    They do? Then how do we end up with helms that clip through character's chests?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    They do? Then how do we end up with helms that clip through character's chests?
    Because otherwise, you'd never get a helm that protects your chin. Sometimes you have to just live with things not working perfectly.


    Why is this thread titled sizes when all it talks about are body types?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Because otherwise, you'd never get a helm that protects your chin. Sometimes you have to just live with things not working perfectly.
    They don't work properly because they weren't designed for that race.

  15. #15
    Scarab Lord snuzzle's Avatar
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    Sorry, but if other races could decide how bulky or not they were and I couldn't because someone, arbitrarily, decided it was less important for Tauren, I'd be pretty annoyed. All or none imo.
    Some noses just don't belong on some faces! #SaveTheSnoots!

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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by snuzzle View Post
    Sorry, but if other races could decide how bulky or not they were and I couldn't because someone, arbitrarily, decided it was less important for Tauren, I'd be pretty annoyed. All or none imo.
    Rightfully so, this is why it'll never happen.

    How would you feel if they introduced special customization options like that for certain races but not the one you play?

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by snuzzle View Post
    Sorry, but if other races could decide how bulky or not they were and I couldn't because someone, arbitrarily, decided it was less important for Tauren, I'd be pretty annoyed. All or none imo.
    Yeah, pretty much this. You've cut out just about half of the races in the game because you decided that while this feature is entirely necessary it's not for a small majority of the races in the game?

    Humans need several sizes but not the forsaken? Where's the logic in that? Forsaken are humans who are dead. Worgens are humans who have been stricken with a curse that makes their bodies shift but they are not worthy? Why not a slimmer Pandaren? I for one would love to see a Pandaren model in the game similar to that of the one we saw in the shaohao videos in the game. A male tauren that isn't twice the size of every other race in the game would be nice too. Gnomes and Goblins could use with thinner but slightly taller models, or a less rubenesque Dwarf.

    Blizzard really could not say "Hey, we're adding a ton of variety to character model shapes in the game, but these 14 models are SoL. Deal with it." There would be a God damn riot. Even at this point they're saying that even Goblins and Worgen are on the table for getting model updates after the original 10 and 2 BC models. If this were to happen they would have to be equal treatment across ALL races or none at all.

  18. #18
    While obviously more options are always good, I'd just say the type of game WoW is would not lend itself to this being a priority for like 2 more xpacs.

    WoW has a pretty casual fantasy setting. By that I mean it has every single stereotype when you think of Fantasy. When people think of stereotypical Fantasy, every Orc looks the same, every human, every Elf, every undead. People don't expect huge amounts of customizations for a setting like that.

    If you'd ask people want they want as the next racial addition, a new race and sub races will far outpace extended customization options.

  19. #19
    Scarab Lord snuzzle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VerasGunn View Post
    Yeah, pretty much this. You've cut out just about half of the races in the game because you decided that while this feature is entirely necessary it's not for a small majority of the races in the game?

    Humans need several sizes but not the forsaken? Where's the logic in that? Forsaken are humans who are dead. Worgens are humans who have been stricken with a curse that makes their bodies shift but they are not worthy? Why not a slimmer Pandaren? I for one would love to see a Pandaren model in the game similar to that of the one we saw in the shaohao videos in the game. A male tauren that isn't twice the size of every other race in the game would be nice too. Gnomes and Goblins could use with thinner but slightly taller models, or a less rubenesque Dwarf.

    Blizzard really could not say "Hey, we're adding a ton of variety to character model shapes in the game, but these 14 models are SoL. Deal with it." There would be a God damn riot. Even at this point they're saying that even Goblins and Worgen are on the table for getting model updates after the original 10 and 2 BC models. If this were to happen they would have to be equal treatment across ALL races or none at all.
    Not only that, but the choices he decided on are... questionable, as well. Males get to be bulkier or fatter or slimmer, females occasionally get thrown a bone of being slimmer or more muscular for night elves. Like seriously? It's completely not feasible for female trolls to get to have a bulkier option if you're giving it to the males? Female draenei can't get a more muscular option closer to the refrigerator males? Come on. If we're gonna do body types, we should do it fairly.

    Every race should have at least three or four choices, for each gender:

    A bulky version
    A "middle" version, this may be the current one, it may not (in the case of draenei males, their current version would be "bulky")
    A slim version
    A fat version

    THAT would be fair. How slim the "slim version" is would depend on race (for example, of course, the current slim blood elf female would be thinner than a theoretical slim pandaren male).
    Last edited by snuzzle; 2014-04-24 at 03:29 AM.
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  20. #20
    I rather have a different body shape and casting animations for each race then have only one single body shape that can be customized base on portortions only, with all of them having same casting animations.

    Most mmos do the latter, just think of a cats head stuck on a humans body. Requesting more then one of theses 2 choices is really asking too much, oh and sacrifice of a new raid tier.
    Last edited by Kaniinchen; 2014-04-24 at 03:45 AM.

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