Heroic Garrosh question.

[Leonofhyjal]

I've been playing destro for 25m H Garrosh for the last 2 weeks or so. I'm also 1 of 4 people doing siege engineers, although I've done that job as aff and demo many times. Do you think I could go aff or demo pump out more single target boss damage to make it worth it?

I'm not exactly master as destro but am baller as aff and demo so just let me know what you guys are thinking.

[Schma]

Hello friend. 4 people sounds a lot for the siege engineer. With 4 people (and still being able to make all other relevant dps checks) it shouldn't matter what spec you are. IMO you should play what you're best at, gear matters too of course.

Basically depends on what your raid team needs, and the strategy that you're using. Destruction is really nice for the first intermission burst if your group needs help there. But demo with 2nd AD charge saved up with some demonic fury could also burst the adds down really well. Demo is nice because of the movement, and if you're not killing weapons in phase 2 you could slap doom on the weapons for some imp procs.

I'm kind of in the same boat as you, working on h garrosh 25. Currently going destro w/ AD, but i've done a bunch of attempts as demo as well and it's been solid (garrosh damage). After it's on farm and if i get the garrosh trinket, a high haste demo build might be fun :P

GLHF

[Strifey]

I really doubt aff is going to do more single target boss damage with how long the fight is and you needing to reapply fresh dots throughout all of the phases.

Destro just does really well with the way the intermission phases are and because of it's higher sustained dps as well as a lot of opportunities to build embers through havocing embers or MCs that contribute to more single target dps.

I personally stayed as destro for this fight even though I much prefer aff and use it on 6 other heroic fights, maybe one could be good if you need cleave dps on the weapons, I haven't played demo this tier but I could see that being okay with dooms on all the weapons for imps, but I dunno you could always try it and see how your Garrosh Damage and Intermission 1 phases go since those are usually the two most important things.

[yoloswagginz]

Destro will do better single target. Aff is limited in a bunch of other ways aswell. u cant aoe the adds in the terrace phase, u wont do as much in the jade temple phase, u cant break mc's and ur engineer dmg will be much lower. U can also havoc weapons and cast inc or conflag for more embers. Don't use AD. one darksoul in a 10+ min fight won't make any difference. Even if the fight was shorter it wouldn't be worth it with all the movement. Demo is horrible this tier.

[Killem]

Don't use AD. one darksoul in a 10+ min fight won't make any difference.

Except you are on Engineer duty and want to prevent the worst case. (no proccs and cds on one of them)

[Styxz]

Destro will do better single target. Aff is limited in a bunch of other ways aswell. u cant aoe the adds in the terrace phase, u wont do as much in the jade temple phase, u cant break mc's and ur engineer dmg will be much lower. U can also havoc weapons and cast inc or conflag for more embers. Don't use AD. one darksoul in a 10+ min fight won't make any difference. Even if the fight was shorter it wouldn't be worth it with all the movement. Demo is horrible this tier.

That's hyperbole. Demo isn't as strong or as practical as the other two specs sure, but it's a fair bit better than horrible.

[Strifey]

Except you are on Engineer duty and want to prevent the worst case. (no proccs and cds on one of them)

All 3 of our warlocks are on engis with a hunter, none of us run AD and out of the 95 attempts before our kill + our attempts this week for our 2nd kill we've failed the engi maybe 5 times, and it was definitely from other issues and not due to not running AD. If you need AD just for one engi kill vs lower dps over the course of a 13 min fight then there are probably other areas you should work on.

This is in 25M though... but yea having to run AD just for one engi kill seems pretty terrible considering how much dps you lose having to use fel flame during all the movement...

[yoloswagginz]

Except you are on Engineer duty and want to prevent the worst case. (no proccs and cds on one of them)

not worth it and even with no procs or CDs u should have no problem just pooling embers

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That's hyperbole. Demo isn't as strong or as practical as the other two specs sure, but it's a fair bit better than horrible.

it is horrible there isn't a single fight where it comes out on top. http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/ the only time it may be viable is on heroic paragons

[Xandy]

it is horrible there isn't a single fight where it comes out on top. http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/ the only time it may be viable is on heroic paragons

To be fair raidbots is somewhat skewed by the fact that noone is playing Demo due to the nerfs. There is also the fact that a lot of the fights (but not all) don't cater to Demo's play style, leading to ever more underrepresentation. I have heard of Warlocks taking Demo and pulling competitive numbers, I'm a firm believer that regardless of a spec perceived performance it is based more on the player than the class. If you are really good at Demo and you've got the gear for it, I don't see a reason not using it for fights which it is suited for.

[Schma]

To be fair raidbots is somewhat skewed by the fact that noone is playing Demo due to the nerfs. There is also the fact that a lot of the fights (but not all) don't cater to Demo's play style, leading to ever more underrepresentation. I have heard of Warlocks taking Demo and pulling competitive numbers, I'm a firm believer that regardless of a spec perceived performance it is based more on the player than the class. If you are really good at Demo and you've got the gear for it, I don't see a reason not using it for fights which it is suited for.

exactly. not to mention that many top logs are full of cheese. There are many players out there that don't give a damn about anything other than their WoL ranking, and coordinate the raid just to increase one person's DPS...

Also, I wouldn't use my 2nd AD charge on the siege engineer either. KJC does nothing for me.. all movement (in our strat) is highly predictable. H garrosh is just a set of strict dps checks, having AD makes a ton of sense to me.. but to each their own!

[JV Chequer]

Except you are on Engineer duty and want to prevent the worst case. (no proccs and cds on one of them)

I solo 2 eng without AD.

Don't need it at all. Just guarantee u have 3 Embers, 2 for double CB + 1 for Shadowburn.

[yoloswagginz]

there's still a group of decent locks playing demo. zaphikel, jet, jello, shinafae, etc. and they don't compare to aff locks, not because they're bad. It's just because their spec is bad. And also u kinda contradicted urself. you're right in saying no1s playing demo because of the nerfs. Because of the nerfs demo isn't up there so no1 is playing it lol.

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exactly. not to mention that many top logs are full of cheese. There are many players out there that don't give a damn about anything other than their WoL ranking, and coordinate the raid just to increase one person's DPS...

Also, I wouldn't use my 2nd AD charge on the siege engineer either. KJC does nothing for me.. all movement (in our strat) is highly predictable. H garrosh is just a set of strict dps checks, having AD makes a ton of sense to me.. but to each their own!

that's true there are ppl cheesing hard now, but if u take a look at their logs u can easily see that they were cheesing. But it is only a minority of the logs so u can look at 80-90th percentile because it will exclude all of the top 5% "cheesing parses" if u will.

[Xandy]

And also u kinda contradicted urself. you're right in saying no1s playing demo because of the nerfs. Because of the nerfs demo isn't up there so no1 is playing it lol.

I don't see how that's a contradiction it is pure logic. Destro and Affy are in the top DPS slot right now, so they are being used more than Demo, leading to underrepresentation in logs for Demo. Because of this, you CAN'T look at raidbots and say "omg Demo is horrible, so bad." That is all I'm saying, and that is not a contradiction. It is logical fact; Demo is NOT a bad spec, it's just not as overpowered as Destro and Affy.

inb4: no this does not mean that you HAVE to play Affy/Destro over Demo because you want to do more potential DPS just because Affy/Destro are OP and Demo is not. Because, as I said before, if you're much better at Demo then the other specs than you should be free exercise your expertise, especially for fights which cater to Demos play-style (of which there are several)

[Werst]

Demo isn't "terrible" or even "bad" per se....just aff and destro are better. Basically anything demo does they do better or at least easier. You could do demo on paragons and roll high crit dooms on targets (even w/o UVLS you still get imps and 30%+ crit...) so its viable. Demo could do well on garrosh but takes more risks like aoe'ing adds as demo vs destro....that said you can toc and carrion wave to help w' MC's. A doom on the weapons isn't bad, especially if you kill them slowly or not at all. You will just work harder for similar results.

[yoloswagginz]

Demo isn't "terrible" or even "bad" per se....just aff and destro are better. Basically anything demo does they do better or at least easier. You could do demo on paragons and roll high crit dooms on targets (even w/o UVLS you still get imps and 30%+ crit...) so its viable. Demo could do well on garrosh but takes more risks like aoe'ing adds as demo vs destro....that said you can toc and carrion wave to help w' MC's. A doom on the weapons isn't bad, especially if you kill them slowly or not at all. You will just work harder for similar results.

you won't get similar results especially if you're killing weapons and also idk why you guys are insistent on comparing demo to specs of other classes. You should be comparing it to your other specs.