1. #1

    "Time travel", "alternate Azeroth", etc

    I wanted to give the folks who throw these terms around a better way to think about how the whole Draenor thing works.

    We aren't traveling to the past, or an alternate branch of the past that Garrosh created once he and his cohorts stepped through (lel many-worlds quantum physics interpretation). There is no alternate Azeroth to speak of, relative to this Draenor. Draenor was brought to us. The little area of spacetime that consists of Draenor 30 years ago was merged with our current overall spacetime. Think of it as old Draenor being copypasta'd into the place where Draenor used to be in our current timeline, before it was blasted into the Nether (this isn't factual, but I like to think that's where Draenor ended up). This is what Kairoz did, or rather, ends up doing.

    We aren't time-traveling to Draenor, Draenor is time-traveling to us, and the Iron Horde makes a cross-universe portal to our planet just as the original Horde did. This is why the Legion, and Kil'Jaeden in particular, will end up going apeshit once they find out what happened.

    Did I say Draenor enough? Draenor.
    Last edited by Herradura; 2014-04-10 at 02:21 PM.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Herradura View Post
    I wanted to give the folks who throw these terms around a better way to think about how the whole Draenor thing works.

    We aren't traveling to the past, or an alternate branch of the past that Garrosh created once he and his cohorts stepped through (lel many-worlds quantum physics interpretation). There is no alternate Azeroth to speak of, relative to this Draenor. Draenor was brought to us. The little area of spacetime that consists of Draenor 30 years ago was merged with our current overall spacetime. Think of it as old Draenor being copypasta'd into the place where Draenor used to be in our current timeline, before it was blasted into the Nether (this isn't factual, but I like to think that's where Draenor ended up). This is what Kairoz did, or rather, ends up doing.

    We aren't time-traveling to Draenor, Draenor is time-traveling to us, and the Iron Horde makes a cross-universe portal to our planet just as the original Horde did. This is why the Legion, and Kil'Jaeden in particular, will end up going apeshit once they find out what happened.

    Did I say Draenor enough? Draenor.
    I am sorry, but you are misunderstanding what is going on...We are traveling to an alternate timeline, using a portal created by a bronze dragon like those being used in the caverns of time, using Epoch Stones from our world as a focal point. We are not traveling through time because the future of that draenor has not happened yet, and therefore we can't interfere with a future that isn't there. Garrosh DID travel through time and change an event, which did splinter an alternate timeline (this is not the first time this has happened in the warcraft universe, and we've played through a few in the caverns of time). This does not move the alternate timeline's draenor into our present, or move it into our timeline in anyway. The only reason any warlords would know they've traveled to the future is if GARROSH TOLD THEM, otherwise they would think they're going to a world that matches timeline to the year, like it originally did when they invaded, this is however not the case....Garrosh DID time travel, we are not...

    Do not try to apply our world's physics to it, this is a world where magic exists, and time-streams are constantly in flux, so much that giant metal alien scientists (Titans) had to invent (create) DRAGONS as Aspects to guard over stuff, like the emerald dream (A backup default save of azeroth), Arcane magic (a fuel source for their work, and demon food), Time/space (yeah, alternate timelines and whatnot), the concept of mortality, and the physical planet itself... Why in this world or any other would our understanding of events, or our understanding of "Science vs. Magic" apply!? "time-travel can't happen" "alternate dimensions can't happen" "alternate timelines cant happen"....IT'S FANTASY, THEY CAN DO WHAT THEY WANT, IT DOESN'T NEED TRUE SCIENTIFIC PROOF TO HAPPEN, IT JUST NEEDS TO BE BELIEVABLE ENOUGH TO HAPPEN. And in a world where we know it can happen, why do we complain that it can't?

  3. #3
    Time travel like this is always just really bad for story. Best just ignore it and treat Draenor as a new outlands.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Briga View Post
    Time travel like this is always just really bad for story. Best just ignore it and treat Draenor as a new outlands.
    I think there are far worse things they can do for the story than this, i just think people are putting to much focus on the how and blizzards why rather than putting the focus on what really matters. If you forget the idea of alternate timelines (lord knows your character won't know a damn thing about it for a while) and just jump into your characters mentality, the dark portal changes color and a MASSIVE army marches across azeroth destroying everything in its path, and the only hope for survival is to close the portal, and learning the lessons of our past we KNOW that we have to go through the portal and close it from the other side...that is the only option, and that's all that matters...once we get over there however, we begin to understand the truth of the matter, and that is all this is about.

    Blizzard giving us the description of their how and why was a huge spoiler that we would have discovered on our own much later in the expansions lifecycle, and i think if we had stumbled onto it ourselves it would make more sense to people... It helps that we have NPCs from our timeline joining us in this alternate one to help us, and it helps to have characters in this timeline (Velen) that didn't come with that we would still recognize....would put the pieces together nicely for some people and make us think at the very least "Time-travel" and "alternate timeline"...

    --Edit--

    Them spoiling the alternate timeline / not time travel...is a lot like the patch notes / blogs: context (blogs) without information (patch notes), and Information (patch notes) without context (blogs) don't really make much sense in the BIG PICTURE...we have to wait until we have both to truly understand what we're seeing / hearing
    Last edited by Sinryu; 2014-04-10 at 03:26 PM.

  5. #5
    I was under the impression when Garrosh went back in time he spawned a alternate timeline. He has now linked the timeline via a portal but not merged them. So they are traveling to the future and into the prime timeline to invade us. We go back into the past in a alternate timeline to stop them. So i would think there would be a alternate/past Azeroth but we cant get to it since a portal would have to be built to bridge the worlds like it was during the First War. The reason the Iron Horde and our Alliance and Horde can travel in mass in between is do to them linking to our Dark Portal.

    It took alot of prep to take Garrosh and his Bronze Allie to the past and spawn a new timeline that can be linked to ours. I would assume if there was no linking to our Dark Portal then it would take the same to send just a hand full of troops to our world and to theirs. I know the Bronze used to travel into multiple places in time like it was child's play but with Aspects losing alot of their power i imagine is no where near as easy as it once was.
    Last edited by Sensui06; 2014-04-10 at 04:30 PM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Sensui06 View Post
    I was under the impression when Garrosh went back in time he spawned a alternate timeline. He has now linked the timeline via a portal but not merged them. So they are traveling to the future and into the prime timeline to invade us. We go back into the past in a alternate timeline to stop them. So i would think there would be a alternate/past Azeroth but we cant get to it since a portal would have to be built to bridge the worlds like it was during the First War. The reason the Iron Horde and our Alliance and Horde can travel in mass in between is do to them linking to our Dark Portal.

    It took alot of prep to take Garrosh and his Bronze Allie to the past and spawn a new timeline that can be linked to ours. I would assume if there was no linking to our Dark Portal then it would take the same to send just a hand full of troops to our world and to theirs. I know the Bronze used to travel into multiple places in time like it was child's play but with Aspects losing alot of their power i imagine is no where near as easy as it once was.
    yup, pretty much the assumption by most, but blizzard says to ignore the alternate azeroth because it's unimportant to the events we're going to be going through in this expansion and the ones after...as in it exists, but it's pointless.

  7. #7
    Dreadlord Nexsa's Avatar
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    I wann see the two Velen's meet!

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Nexsa View Post
    I wann see the two Velen's meet!
    alas it isn't happening, our velen isn't crossing over to their side, blizzard is intentionally trying to avoid the paradoxes. as far as we know...the horde is traveling with Thrall (him not being born yet) and the alliance is going with Khadgar.

  9. #9
    Field Marshal Velasco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinryu View Post
    alas it isn't happening, our velen isn't crossing over to their side, blizzard is intentionally trying to avoid the paradoxes. as far as we know...the horde is traveling with Thrall (him not being born yet) and the alliance is going with Khadgar.
    Any Draenei (also player controlled) passing through the portal risks being a victim to a paradox. I haven't seen an official word yet on how Blizzard wants to address that, if at all. And no, I don't count the statement from the April fool as fact, that all playable draeneis were conceived on the Exodar after fleeing Draenor.
    Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler (Blue Tracker)

    Hellooouu.....I'm Greg, you might know me as Ghostcrawler......you might know me as that asshole that nerfed your class.
    Pure WIN.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Velasco View Post
    Any Draenei (also player controlled) passing through the portal risks being a victim to a paradox. I haven't seen an official word yet on how Blizzard wants to address that, if at all. And no, I don't count the statement from the April fool as fact, that all playable draeneis were conceived on the Exodar after fleeing Draenor.
    the problem is in regards to lore in the Prime Timeline (game world is not technically the PRIME either) we as players do not exist....kind of like in Dragon Age: Origins, we make up 1 person in the world, and all other options cease to be....not that they never existed, but rather, if i'm not playing a draenei, then my single player draenei counterpart isn't a "Survivor" from the exodar crash...The paradox is somewhat averted if for instance as a draenei, because you would have existed in this alternate Draenor, the alterna-you died during a battle that you never got into in your original timeline.

    Otherwise...racial populations would tap into the player base, and we would have millions more humans than exist in the actual lore (fighting Arthas and losing 100k humans is meaningless when players make up 15 million extra humans). The dark spear tribe, which was dieing out when thrall saved them would...be in the hundreds of thousands (at least) in terms of population, which is far from Dieing out...
    Last edited by Sinryu; 2014-04-10 at 05:07 PM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Velasco View Post
    Any Draenei (also player controlled) passing through the portal risks being a victim to a paradox. I haven't seen an official word yet on how Blizzard wants to address that, if at all. And no, I don't count the statement from the April fool as fact, that all playable draeneis were conceived on the Exodar after fleeing Draenor.
    Well, based on the lore conversations datamined, Yrel may have existed in the original timeline and died. It seems most characters will wind up being dead, or different altogether. For instance, Akama is in Karabor, but he's a Draenei at this point.

    The only time this has ever been used in WoW lore was the War of the Ancients trilogy. Krasus/Korialstrasz went back to that time in his elfish form, and Korialstrasz already existed in that timeline as a younger dragon consort of Alexstrazsa. They were weak when they were apart, but felt "whole" when Krasus would be near his younger counterpart. Like, they would literally collapse when they were apart, and felt as if they would die. No one else in the books had met their old selves.

    Otherwise, Nozdormu refused to face Murozond in End Time, but that could have been for various reasons (corruption, powers cancelling each other out, the weakness thing, etc). He only shows up after we kill Murozond.
    3 hints to surviving MMO-C forums:
    1.) If you have an opinion, someone will say that it is wrong
    2.) If you have a source, there will be people who refuse to believe it
    3.) If you use logic, it will be largely ignored
    Btw: *Tanaan, *Farahlon, *Arakkoa. Not that hard.

  12. #12
    I think of it like Back To The Future. The timeline "skewed" into a different version when Garrosh went back in time, and we have to correct it.

  13. #13
    Storyline is fucking horrible. It's ok, we all know it.
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